HD Native CUE Mixes Plugins and Recording

[Nathan W.]

One aspect that is super important to me, in particular, is recording and sending cue mixes to people in my live booth using an HD Native system. I have an HD Accel 2 system right now using Protools 9 and I can only use TDM plugins when compressing and equalizing the tracks I'm recording. I've had issues where I'd put a metering plugin on a master fader and the talent notices "I hear an echo" which is the delay caused by the RTAS plugin. Because of the problems I get when trying to record people and the "echo" or delay I stick only to TDM plugins. So if I insert an RTAS plugin on a cue mix or a master fader on a native system will I get the same problem? Is it necessary to only use AAX plugins when recording? I was considering getting a native + omni but my gut says that I need an HDX card. Thanks for the help, I'm a little confused.

[nst7]

Most EQ and compressor native plugins nowadays have no latency (or maybe 1 sample), so this should not be an issue. This is regardless of Rtas, AAX, whatever.

Metering plugins by their very nature add delay because they analyze the incoming signal and then show you the information after the fact. The same applies to look ahead limiters like the L1, L2, Maxim, etc. you should avoid those plugins when tracking, but most EQ's/compressors are fine. There are a few with additional latency like the Waves Rennaisance eq and compressor, but there are plenty of others to choose from while tracking.

[nst7]

If I rember correctly, in TDM you have slightly more latency on a native plugin, and I believe the workaround is to first insert a non-needed TDM plugin first (like a trim plugin) and that corrects the issue.


Someone who knows more could explain better how that works.

[Jack Ruston]

Not quite

In a TDM system an RTAS plug in will always have a long latency. Its not the plug in, but the transfer of audio out and back in to the TDM mixer. There is no workaround. But in HD native, the latency is often zero. As mentioned, most EQ and compression plug ins have no latency at all. Your cue mixes will need to be subject to the round trip latency of the system though, because obviously low latency mode can't work with plug ins inserted as the audio doesn't go to the mixer. At the lowest buffer that latency is 3.2ms at 44.1kHz and 1.6ms at 96kHz, with Avid IO. In my experience of practical use this works as well as TDM with a 192 (which is 2.4ms at 44.1k plus plug ins which may not be zero latency under TDM). Now here's the problem...While most mac pros will run that lowest buffer easily, if you have VIs in your session you may not be able to use it.

[Nathan W.]

Originally Posted by Jack Ruston

As mentioned, most EQ and compression plug ins have no latency at all. Your cue mixes will need to be subject to the round trip latency of the system though, because obviously low latency mode can't work with plug ins inserted as the audio doesn't go to the mixer. At the lowest buffer that latency is 3.2ms at 44.1kHz and 1.6ms at 96kHz, with Avid IO. In my experience of practical use this works as well as TDM with a 192 (which is 2.4ms at 44.1k plus plug ins which may not be zero latency under TDM). Now here's the problem...While most mac pros will run that lowest buffer easily, if you have VIs in your session you may not be able to use it.

http://duc.avid.com/showthread.php?t=310116&page=2

I think that post pretty much answers my question, seems like AAX is the way to go. 81% sure. lol

[nst7]

Not sure why it would matter if it's AAX or RTAS, it only matters if the plugin is zero latency, which as mentioned, most are these days.

[Jack Ruston UK]

That thread relates to PT10 (native). This is the HD Native forum relating to the card used with Avid IO. The roundtrip times are in my previous post. The figures for HDX with new Avid IO are very small...Something like 0.5ms round trip. Be aware that HDX running AAX plug ins still suffers from increased latency if you need to run plug ins on the host (as per TDM systems)

J

[toye]

did u go with NATIVE or HDX yet? I am looking to downgrade my HDX card to a Native card if u want to save a few bux on HDX