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#111
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Re: Let's clear the air, folks...
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meaning of words while exclaiming their emotions/opinions. 'Not worth it' - in 99% of all exclamations is based on subjectiveness. Thus a 'to me' is INDEED hidden in there, only not exclaimed. 'Not worth it' deliberately proclaimed in objectiveness would suggest that 'to me' is not at all to be found in the phrase. I think 99% of all "PT 10 aint worth it" posted here on the DUCk - should be having having 'to me' tailing their exclamation. Based on my knowledge about DAWs today, if I imagine having no DAW at my disposal having to buy one today and it should meet my expectations.. I would rather pay $5000 for Protools 10 Software than $399 for Presonus Studio One. Latter, TO ME, would be wasting $399. AS the DAW certainly does NOT meet my expectations (concept is nice though and perhaps in 2 years they'll be there). $5000 would be a lot of money to me, regardless of buying a TV, Chair or Software. BUT IT WOULD solve a problem for me.. And thus TO ME - it would be well worth the money. When asked if I'd really think its worth that much, i'd go yeahhh. And in the heat of the moment I would probably think about adding "TO ME"
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2016 MacBook Pro Retina | 16GB RAM | 1TB SSD | OS X Latest - PTHD 12 Latest | 4K LG Thunderbolt Display | Logic Pro 10 |
#112
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Re: Let's clear the air, folks...
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Nah man. I wasn't poking fun at you. It seemed to me that you were saying I was the one who started saying people are wasting my time or that I was the one trying to dismiss people's opinions. That's not that case. I'm just calling it how I see it.
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www.HellfireBeats.com UAD 2 Apollo Quad w/Thunderbolt 3, UAD 2 Satellite Octo TB3, UAD 2 Octo PCIe, Avid S1, Neve R6 500 Chasis, Neve Portico 511, Neve Portico 551, Dangerous DBox+, Focal Trio6 Be, Neumann TLM49, Akai MPC 2000XL, Akai MPC X, Mackie 1202VLZ Pro, Akai Advance 61 Pro Tools 2021.12 Mac Pro 7,1 2019, 8 Core, 48GB RAM - MacOS 11.6.2 16" MacBook Pro 2021, M1 Pro, 16GB RAM - MacOS 12.1 27" iMac, Late-2012, 3.4GHz i7, 24GB RAM - MacOS 10.15 |
#113
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Re: Let's clear the air, folks...
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In other words, while each person does decide for themselves, that action also is inferred as universally true for everyone, otherwise there is no conviction nor reason to believe you are right if you also believe everyone else is also right. Thats the core. Yes there are situations and mitigating factors, but I am talking about the core issue. Quote:
Avid can charge what ever it wants, they have every right to do so. I have every right to say the product is not worth it or to agree with Avid and purchase it. Quote:
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I assume you mean wanting a product for as little as possible. Where is the "violation" And what do you mean by "should be"? are you implying "can"? Or an entitled attitude? Or a general "want". Quote:
Pro Tools HD10 is a $999 update, I think we all agree that is expensive, however if the price was $12,000 - we would also agree that it is expensive. So there is a range to what is really meant by "expensive".
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Brian Windows 11 Pro | macOS 12 Pro Tools 2022 benonistudio.com Youtube Channel - benonistudio Plugin Deals @benonistudio |
#114
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Re: Let's clear the air, folks...
This is a very entertaining thread. Thanks for the good read. I love the part about intrinsic value, as if supply and demand did not dictate the value of everything.
At any rate, I think there are great points on both sides of the debate, but people should remember that Avid, like any other business, prices things based on the need/desire to obtain a return on their investment. One of the flaws in comparing HD software upgrades to other consumer level software upgrades is the total addressable market (TAM). Someone mentioned "making millions on .99 cent software..." in this case the TAM would have to be millions upon millions of potential customers. Pro Tools HD has a much smaller, much more finite TAM. We know how many people historically upgrade their HD software. We know historically how many people upgrade their hardware. We also saw the impact of opening Pro Tools software and learned a lot about what that means. All of the above is taken into account, along with the work and investment that goes into the release to determine the price. Supply and demand ultimately determine value. Avid has a percieved value for the things we make, and either the market agrees and buys it or not. We hope that professionals that use Pro Tools to make a living who try 10 equate the time savings and quality of life improvements in dollars and cents. Many customers who have already purchased it have told us as much. To them, it was worth it and they are very happy. We hope that customers see the value in being on a program like Standard Support, because it helps us keep costs down and provide better service. I was glad we were able to offer this to all Pro Tools HD 9 customers through the end of the year. I have also taken the feedback from HD 8 customers back to Avid, to make sure their voices are heard. Time will tell, but what everyone should understand is that the main motivation for me and my team who design Pro Tools, the engineers and testers that develop it and the folks in the field, on the phones and on the web who support all of our customers is to make great products and help make amazing music, films, tv shows etc. That's what gets us up in the morning. The rest of this is about enabling us to do that, and hopefully we make the right decisions that allow us to continue to do so. |
#115
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Re: Let's clear the air, folks...
#CremeFraiche
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MYSPACE ON'EIM LAUTEN MICS & ME DA'TUBE ON'EIM 'IS TAMARA HOME' NO, SHE'S WITH HOBO KEY '' (that dopey green thing) ('we' must start using pronouns) |
#116
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Re: Let's clear the air, folks...
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Is the human brain even capable of a truly objective thought? However, that in no way removes from the individual, and in effect everyone else from the conclusion we come to.(since our faculties are all we have to rely on and base our whole understanding on) This of course assumes the person saying "Not worth it" truly means "Not worth it" and not "I don't have the money" Quote:
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By saying 'to me' there is an inferred nuance saying that it is not a hard belief. It is not a strongly held belief. It is saying, I am right, but everyone else is also right. I do not believe that that thought can truly exist, as long as situations and mitigating factors are removed - everything being equal, it cannot exist.
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Brian Windows 11 Pro | macOS 12 Pro Tools 2022 benonistudio.com Youtube Channel - benonistudio Plugin Deals @benonistudio |
#117
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Re: Let's clear the air, folks...
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Supply and Demand does dictate value. However you have to understand what propels supply, and what propels demand. That is perception.
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Brian Windows 11 Pro | macOS 12 Pro Tools 2022 benonistudio.com Youtube Channel - benonistudio Plugin Deals @benonistudio |
#118
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Re: Let's clear the air, folks...
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The "perceived value" that you refer to, is determined by the laws of supply and demand. Individual customer perceptions are only a small part of this equation, but lets not take this thread any further off topic. |
#119
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Re: Let's clear the air, folks...
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If customers do not perceive intrinsic value in the product (not the actual parts), and what it does as a whole, the supply does not matter, because there is no demand. The Law of supply and demand is an abstract theory. Not some magical rule. It is all explainable in rational terms. You seem to be saying that the manufacture on its own can determine how much a product is worth. It is true they can price it, but that is not worth. Worth is determined by the consumer, not the supplier. If there is no perceived value, there is no sale. I guess that is where we part ways. But I would like to discuss it further if you wish. I love technical, abstract debates.
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Brian Windows 11 Pro | macOS 12 Pro Tools 2022 benonistudio.com Youtube Channel - benonistudio Plugin Deals @benonistudio |
#120
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Re: Let's clear the air, folks...
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1) Impact of PT9 open had serious hit on HD user base........ 2) The HD user base is now mostly made up of people earning a living from using ProTools 3) This market is now considerably smaller and closer to a true Niche market 4) New prices are about what it takes to be as profitable as possible in a niche market. 5) Market forces will have the final say Sad as I like to admit WRT to my $$, this makes some sense to me. HD has always been more expensive...... maybe 2X - updates, plugs, etc....... The systems are still relatively the same price in my mind........ but keeping software up to date is now in a new price range (3X of non-HD)........ only time will tell how well this works.............
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2017 27" iMac 3.8GHz i5, 1TB SSD Logic ProX, Studio One V4, PT current version, Apogee Ensemble TB Musician: http://www.ivanlee.net/ Design Engineer: http://www.propowerinc.com/resume.html |
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