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  #1  
Old 10-01-2007, 09:26 AM
brokemusician3 brokemusician3 is offline
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Default Why\'s everyone switching to Logic?

Is Logic better than ProTools is it more stable and reliable?
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  #2  
Old 10-01-2007, 11:03 AM
tamasdragon tamasdragon is offline
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Default Re: Why\'s everyone switching to Logic?

Short answer is NO.
Anyway the question is bad, because not everyone. Just some. This is the same with every daw people changing, than change again. Daws are staying. As protools stays a pro app. The logic thing will calm down.
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  #3  
Old 10-01-2007, 02:19 PM
Obsidian Dragon Obsidian Dragon is offline
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Default Re: Why\'s everyone switching to Logic?

Apple recently introduced Logic 8 with a lower price. The package comes with a lot of features including plugins and virtual instruments. The performance (and track count) is not too shabby either. Digidesign on the otherhand has been slow to come out with many new features (mostly due to the older code base).

General frustration by customers about what is perceived to be a limited feature set including lack of some long awaited things like "plug-in delay compensation," unlimited track count (should be limited by your computer's performance and capabilities), and a very selective hardware compatibility tolerance, have caused some (including some very long term and loyal Protools users on this DUC) to "jump ship."

As stated by the previous poster, this by no means indicates everyone is changing DAW's. Some are sticking it out. Protools HD has been the industry standard for some time and the workflow in Protools is pretty good. Protools LE, however artificially crippled, still works for some folks and that "Protools" name can still get the clients in the front door.

Although it seems some have left Protools for good, I tend to think they still have a Protools setup sitting around for when Digidesign finally get's the new code out the door. Talk of "jumping ship," however shocking, is mostly intended to hopefully get Digidesign to catch up with the competition in terms of feature set and to remove these limitations.

I don't speak for everybody however. Some may have really left and will never come back, feeling unheard and unfulfilled by Digidesign's slow movement while the competition releases exciting features and compatibility with current operating systems (Vista).

So for the price of a decent RTAS plug-in, someone can get Logic 8. If you already have a relatively new Mac running OSX, it's worth a look. For the record, I haven't jumped ship...yet.
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  #4  
Old 10-01-2007, 02:58 PM
TQ1 TQ1 is offline
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Default Re: Why\'s everyone switching to Logic?

Shouldn't this discussion be in a Mac forum?
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  #5  
Old 10-01-2007, 03:41 PM
Obsidian Dragon Obsidian Dragon is offline
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Default Re: Why\'s everyone switching to Logic?

Quote:
Shouldn't this discussion be in a Mac forum?
Yeah, that makes sense since Logic 8 is only a Mac application (but some folks are wondering if Apple will port it to the Windows platform like Safari, iTunes, Quicktime, etc. It was posted here so I just responded. In the big picture, I suppose this could be about Sonar 7 or Cubase 5 or any other Windows based DAW. Basically there will always be some new version from the competition that makes you think, "should I switch?"

Some of us might remember that "WordStar" ruled the word processing market for many years. It was surplanted by WordPerfect over time. Before we knew it, Microsoft Word became the industry standard as we know it today. The same can happen in the DAW world. Digidesign needs to not only keep up, but must lead the way. Otherwise the next industry standard will be taking the throne. Logic may not be the next industry standard but you never know.
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  #6  
Old 10-01-2007, 05:40 PM
sunburst79 sunburst79 is offline
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Default Re: Why\'s everyone switching to Logic?

Quote:
Shouldn't this discussion be in a Mac forum?
Actually its quite relevant as I think they are picking up a lot of Ex PC guys recently.
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  #7  
Old 10-01-2007, 08:38 PM
bilco bilco is offline
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Default Re: Why\'s everyone switching to Logic?

I am a Mac user and former Windows user. I worked my way up from Cakewalk and n-Track to PT Free to PT LE 5.1 (AMIII), then 6.4 (Digi 001) and now 7.3 (Digi 002 Rack and a first generation Mbox.) I could have stayed with Windows and been fine, but I moved over as much out of curiosity as anything else.

I have looked at Logic briefly online just now and I don't really get the appeal. It looks like a glorified version of Garage Band, which is NOT intuitive for me at all. I have also checked out Reaper, which is supposed to be the great new DAW software and I don't really get that one either. At some point or another, I have looked at friends' systems and downloaded and played with demos of lots of DAWs, Cool Edit Pro, SAW, Sonar, Cubase, I can't remember them all. None of them felt right to me like Pro Tools.

I guess it comes down to what works for each person and what they find to be the best fit for their workflow. I never thought I would like anything better than Cakewalk Pro Audio 5 or whatever it was at the time. Then I discovered PT Free, which kind of worked. It worked well enough for me to get a used AMIII card and PT LE 5.1, which was really stable, even though it was running on Win 98SE.

When I made it through the initial learning curve and realized how the mix could be automated AND that the majority of studios in Austin are running some version of PT and I could easily take sessions back and forth, I jumped all the way in and have never looked back. No regrets, no grudges against Digidesign (yes, they want to make a profit, and this is news because.....???), really no problems with any of the systems that I have run, AMIII, Digi 001, Mbox and Digi 002 Rack.

It works fine on Windows machines and it works fine on Macs. I could go back to using it on Windows and be perfectly happy. It is stable and reliable and intuitive enough for me. It is laid out well in the Mix and Edit windows and I like the fact that at least as far back as 5.0 (maybe further, but I don't have older versions), those views have remained consistent. I did not like the layout change when Cakewalk Pro Audio moved to the Sonar GUI format. I LIKE consistency and familiarity in a product; even though constant improvements are made, the GUI remains pretty much the same.

I like things that work. There are flashier basses out there than my Pbass, but when I plug it in, I know it is going to get a tone I can work with every time. Same thing with my Martin acoustic. Some people complain about being chained to the Digi or M-Audio hardware to run Pro Tools, but I like it because I know it works and is reliable. No big deal to install the software and get up and running as long as I read all the directions and follow the installation instructions exactly. I was tempted to try a Fire Studio recently just for the simplicity of having 8 mic preamps in one interface to record a live gig, a moment of weakness and a temporary lapse in judgment. I rented one and I fought with that thing all night and never got it to work. Never again!! The Digi 001 is absolutely bulletproof and so far the Digi 002 has been very stable, even recording to the system drive on a live gig with the band. (Yes, I am buying a Firewire audio drive....) Even the Mbox plays back a session with 10 tracks and plugins and that's over USB 1.0 bandwidth. For songwriting, the Mbox is the best thing to happen to songwriters since the original cassette Portastudios. My favorite tool for recording in a hurry in and room of the house or somewhere else.

Let the ones leave who are lured away by the bells and whistles of whatever the Daw du jour is. Some will come back and some will stay with Logic and some will keep looking for the perfect DAW that only exists in their imagination.

Personally, I can't see ever leaving Pro Tools.

bilco
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  #8  
Old 10-02-2007, 05:21 AM
TQ1 TQ1 is offline
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Default Re: Why\'s everyone switching to Logic?

So, if I posted in the Mac forum and began talking about Adobe Audition and Vista I'd be as well received - or at least tolerated - as discussing a Mac application is in this forum?

Nothing against free-ranging discussions of competing products and I as much as anyone like to color outside the lines but I just think it's a bit odd to talk at length about a Mac app in a PC forum. I'd be delighted if Apple did a PC version of Logic but that's just speculation at this point.

Pretty good post, there bilco. Personally, I'd like to be able to import a Mac Pro Tools session into a Windows Pro Tools session and vice versa.
I work on occasion with a studio in Austin that's running a Mac-based system and I'd love to be able to bring a session created at that studio into my Windows-based LE system.
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  #9  
Old 10-02-2007, 06:26 AM
Carl Kolchak Carl Kolchak is offline
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Default Re: Why\'s everyone switching to Logic?

Quote:
So, if I posted in the Mac forum and began talking about Adobe Audition and Vista I'd be as well received - or at least tolerated - as discussing a Mac application is in this forum?
If there was some major development for a software that was considered a serious enough alternative and was exclusively Windows based, then yes, I think the Mac forum would appreciate the heads-up. Especially now that intel Macs can run Windows.

Likewise, there is a lot of traffic on the Mac forum (not always Mac specific either) that Windows users might not be aware of. This type of thread can bring all sorts of useful information to their attention, especially if Apple decide to bring Logic back to Windows, which isn't out of the question.
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  #10  
Old 10-02-2007, 07:51 AM
Bob Nagy Bob Nagy is offline
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Default Mac/PC compatability

Quote:
Personally, I'd like to be able to import a Mac Pro Tools session into a Windows Pro Tools session and vice versa.
I work on occasion with a studio in Austin that's running a Mac-based system and I'd love to be able to bring a session created at that studio into my Windows-based LE system.
This is supported in PT and has been for a long time. It's not perfect, but it does work and has been improved in recent versions. I work on an HD system on XP, and I receive Mac projects all the time on HD or DVD. Sometimes it takes some work to convert them to PC, but this is mostly due to lack of foresight by people who work on the Mac with no regard for making their sessions more easily portable to PC.

In particular, many Mac PT users use the SD II file format, and do not select "Enforce Mac/PC compatability" (this latter option only exists in older version of the PT app - it's now always enabled in most recent 7.x versions). While PT on Windows can now even access SD II files on Mac HDs, it's still somewhat less than optimum. I'm pretty sure that WAV files have been the Digi-recommended standard audio file format on both Mac and PC for some years now, but even today many people (out of habit I guess) still make new sessions in SD II. Likewise, many studios still have older versions of the app where the "compatability" option in the make new session dialog can be (accidentally) left turned off. All of this simply makes more work to use the session on PC later, but even these things can be worked around.

At worst, a Save Copy Of Session can be performed, copying all audio in the process into new WAV files, which also makes a new session file with the compatability option enabled. This, although somewhat tedious, does resolve most issues. However, there still may be some audio files whose names contain characters illegal in Windows. These audio files all show up as "offline", and this must be resolved via renaming all such audio files. Yes, even more tedious, but again does resolve the problem. I've converted many Mac sessions to PC in this way. It's not fun, but it works.

For these reasons, I wish to suggest to all people who work on a Mac to please do the following :

1) Make all new sessions with Mac/PC compatability enabled (if your version of PT provides this option).
2) Make all new sessions with WAV audio files, or at least AIFF. Don't use SD II.
3) Do not use extended character sets to name tracks, files, regions, etc. Use alphanumerics only. In Brasil, where I live, there is the normal expected tendency for people to name things according to the correct language spelling. In Portuguese, you have vowels with accent marks, that crazy C that thinks it's an S (with the curved line under it), etc. All of this stuff, while technically correct, can cause more work when using the session later on PC. Instead of doing this, use the regular "c", the regular vowels without accent, etc. You can still read it ! And it will be more easily portable to Windows. I suspect Digi is (or already has) added Unicode support to PT which will/has make/made this item moot, but there also still exist many people running older versions where this problem exists.
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