Control|24 and ProControl with Pro Tools 11?

[Kenny Gioia]

I am not changing my stance on anything. Avid has said that they're not making this driver and I believe that that will be the final word. But I would be happy to be wrong on this. Perhaps that blog will help.

I am asking for civility because if this thing devolves into a pissing match, it will be closed. How will that help our cause?

Our best chance is having people like Bob Ohlsson (Motown Legend) and other working professionals chiming in on this issue. It might turn some heads. Chasing them away by chastising them and turning this thread into 2 or 3 people bickering will make it (and you) irrelevant.

If you believe your time is best spent on this thread and with this issue, god bless ya'. But if we can't keep it civil, you're not going to have a choice.

[louieshowers]

Originally Posted by Kenny Gioia

I am not changing my stance on anything. Avid has said that they're not making this driver and I believe that that will be the final word. But I would be happy to be wrong on this. Perhaps that blog will help.

I am asking for civility because if this thing devolves into a pissing match, it will be closed. How will that help our cause?

Our best chance is having people like Bob Ohlsson (Motown Legend) and other working professionals chiming in on this issue. It might turn some heads. Chasing them away by chastising them and turning this thread into 2 or 3 people bickering will make it (and you) irrelevant.

If you believe your time is best spent on this thread and with this issue, god bless ya'. But if we can't keep it civil, you're not going to have a choice.

I deleted my post toward Bob.. even though it wasn't personal, just business discussion. How could he help our case if he is defending Avid? I'm so confused by this logic, but nonetheless, i deleted. And just because this thread is closed does not make me irrelevant since I am trying to provide honest criticism to this dying company in hopes for them to make a redemptive move.

And for the record, I respect your and anyone else's achievements in this industry, but if we have different views about the consumer/business aspect of this company I will speak up. I am also a professor of consumer education as well as an audio engineer. The perfect storm for this situation!

[Shan]

Originally Posted by Bill Denton

... it's EOL announcement could happen literally any day.

And, assuming Avid continues their current pattern, you would still get five more years of use out of it.

How do you know you'll get 5 more years? That's just a guess. Avid doesn't even know themselves. Once the EOL date is reached, Avid then runs on this policy that they have posted many times, "We won't intentionally disable or break it, but if a change in the PT software makes it nonfunctional, we won't fix it". That's where many of their current EOL products stand right now. You might get 5 years from initial release date, you might get 10. Would you purchase the currently selling $10,000 6 year old C|24? What about the currently selling 5 year old Icon D-Control ES, that one can easily invest over $100,000 in? Once they're bricked, they have no resale value at all. With this kind of large monetary investment involved, many are going to consider product longevity and resale value as part of their purchasing decision, and even future upgrading. There's a larger picture in the Avid ecosystem that needs to be considered here.

Shane

[Kenny Gioia]

Originally Posted by louieshowers

And for the record, I respect your and anyone else's achievements in this industry, but if we have different views about the consumer/business aspect of this company I will speak up.

And we encourage you to do so. I have no problem with you having issues with Avid on this forum. I encourage it.

I have a problem when it doesn't remain civil.

There's a big difference between "What a joke! An absolutely useless post" and "Sorry Bob. I respectfully disagree with you. And here's why…"

The first way just causes problems. Bob will dismiss you. I will dismiss you and any point you make will be lost. Let's NOT confuse "having a point" with how you choose to make that point. Thank you for deleting your post.

[Bruce Paine]

www.bobolhsson.com

If I were you.. I would first listen to Mr. Olhsson because he has more experience than anyone here.

Just sayin'

[louieshowers]

Originally Posted by Kenny Gioia

And we encourage you to do so. I have no problem with you having issues with Avid on this forum. I encourage it.

I have a problem when it doesn't remain civil.

There's a big difference between "What a joke! An absolutely useless post" and "Sorry Bob. I respectfully disagree with you. And here's why…"

The first way just causes problems. Bob will dismiss you. I will dismiss you and any point you make will be lost. Let's NOT confuse "having a point" with how you choose to make that point. Thank you for deleting your post.

you're welcome. but I refused to accept that I will be dismissed for having one heated comment. And let's not confuse the music industry experience with consumer education experience.. i have taught that subject for over ten years. I am at my wits end with Avid and I don't want to take it out on a specific individual... I just can't endure anymore blind support. Avid can ignore me all they want.. the current state of affairs is much larger than me.. the cat is out of the bag.

[Jonathan Gordon]

Hi All:
I am a PT user going back about 14 years now. I use PT in two locations, one a studio where I'm running a legacy HD 2 rig on a dual G5 with a Control 24 in a custom console. Because of hardware constraints I'm on PT 7.4. In my little editing room at home I'm running PT 9.x off an Mbox pro on an Intel laptop. Works great, and I can move work files back and forth with very few issues. My PT system although long in the tooth, does it's job well.
The Control 24 looks fantastic in its custom desk. That's $10K or so I have no desire to spend again. After all, let's face it: The control surface is ONE BIG EXPENSIVE MOUSE. No more, no less. It does what it is supposed to do, which is light up and have the faders leap around impressively. Artists like that.
I make a living, but the economy is not great, margins are not great, overhead is high, rates are soft.
I've attended a very impressive Avid presentation clearly aimed at high-cap post houses. PT 11 looks just great if your gig is the next James Cameron movie, with a budget to match.
But I'm not that guy. A multi kilobuck upgrade- even to a Native HD system, is not in the cards right now. And no way am I eating the investment in the Control 24!

At the rate Avid is diverging from its meat and potatoes user base, that base may very well go away.

My personal plans? Probably cobble together an upgrade that will allow me to freeze at PT 9 or 10 for awhile on both systems. Get my Logic chops up to speed in case I want to jump off the PT platform. If I hit the lottery maybe upgrade to PT 11. Or maybe not.

I was a very loyal user for a long time, but these latest developments make me feel like Avid is out of touch with the day to day reality of the guys who use their systems to make a living.

Cheers,
Jon Gordon

[scotsman]

Yes agreed they seem out of touch, need to listen more and deliver what people like us need and are willing to pay for.

Cheers Scotsman

[Bob Olhsson]

Jonathon, you are typical of a great many busy pro users I know. I can't imagine that your clients really care what version of Pro Tools you use. The only reason to move to a newer version might be convenience interacting with people running 11 on a laptop. There are many options in used computers and Pro Tools cards that could make a move to PT 10 for convenience pretty inexpensive.

While PT 11 will be a godsend to some like me who run a native system or people who currently compose in Logic or performer, I think the idea that it is always a better choice than earlier versions of Pro Tools HD is pretty flawed. I actually downgraded from mix to le running on a powerful PC because by that time I could easily rent studio time or an HD rig for the few occasions I absolutely needed more power. Chris Stone who founded the Record Plant once told me their policy was to never buy anything new if something just as good was available used. It was sage advice to pros in the 1970s and really still is.

[louieshowers]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6EG-i...7H55o&index=19

I'm sure the rebuttal for this review will be something along the lines of "He has a funny hat on, so his opinion doesn't matter..." This is the general consensus Avid. Please address and fix. Thank you.