iLok This is kind of crooked business practice

[N-G-NEER]

This letter is intended to inform those who will otherwise be duped buy Pace The Company who produces the iLok. After purchasing ZDT (Zero Down Time) because we were going to be moving our studio to a new location. We wished to be covered just in case. Well the worst did occur, in that in removing the iLok from the USB port on the back of our computer the iLok came apart in my hands. There was no force involved just unplug the device which was installed about eight months ago and the base remained attached to the computer while the body came off in my hands. I was afraid the the unit could be broken or stolen during the move. I certainly didn't realise it would fall apart due to poor quality control. What I have seen is a cold solder joint. But the point is that what is being offererd on the Pace site is not what is being fulfilled. Let illustrate. This is a paste from the Pace/iLok site:

Zero Downtime Coverage
The iLok.com Zero Downtime program enables iLok owners to immediately replace licenses in case an iLok is broken, lost or stolen. Benefits of covering an iLok include:

Immediate replacement of licenses in the event of disaster
Priority support during replacement event
Peace of mind
Here's how Zero Downtime works:
Sign up for Zero Downtime coverage for each critical iLok you own. You also purchase spare iLoks as needed for emergency.
When a covered iLok breaks or is lost or stolen, log in to iLok.com and go through the RMA process for the affected iLok.
iLok.com automatically deposits time limited temporary licenses in your account.
Using iLok.com, you download the temporary licenses onto a spare iLok. You can now continue to work using these temporary licenses.
You send us the broken iLok.
Once we've validated the broken iLok, we provide you with permanent replacement licenses in your iLok.com account.
You put the replacement licenses on your spare iLok. You now have a complete replacement of your licenses.
If the iLok was defective and under warranty, we send you a blank replacement. You can use the replacement as your spare if you like.
Zero Downtime coverage costs only $30.00 per iLok per year. Coverage under the plan begins after a 1 week "cooling off" period. If you have an unexpected emergency and wish coverage to begin immediately, you may pay an expediency surcharge.

At the end of the 12-month period, your ZDT subscription(s) will automatically renew using the credit card on file. If there is a problem with your credit card at the time of renewal, you may be notified by email to update this information on iLok.com.

iLoks that are not covered under Zero Downtime may still be replaced using our standard RMA process. However, you will only receive temporary licenses for iLoks that are covered. Also, since covered iLoks receive replacement priority, iLoks that are not covered may take as long as two business weeks to replace.

These are their words not mine. Please pay special attention to this Line:

Once we've validated the broken iLok, we provide you with permanent replacement licenses in your iLok.com account.
You put the replacement licenses on your spare iLok. You now have a complete replacement of your licenses.

Now here's what really happens:

How replacement works:
You must provide us with a valid credit card to start the RMA process. Your card may or may not be charged depending on the warranty. If charged, the cost for an RMA will be $39.95 plus shipping and handling.
You must send your iLok to us as part of the RMA process. If we do not receive your iLok, we cannot provide you with permanent replacement licenses.
If your iLok is under warranty, we will provide a replacement iLok.
Replacement licenses will either be provided on the replacement iLok itself or will be deposited in your iLok.com account.
If you receive permanent replacement licenses to your account, you must download them into the iLok of your choice.

Once you've been sucked in to this scheme and paid not only for the original iLok but for the replacement as well so that you can download the temporary licenses this is the next stunt:

Zero Downtime is the privilege of receiving temporary licenses into your
iLok.com account as part of the Return Merchandise Authorization (RMA) process.

The estimated cost provided to you during the RMA process is what will be
charged to your credit card if the non-functional iLok we will be receiving is
outside of its warranty period. This is basicly the price of a new iLok,
shipping and handling fees.

Due to technical and legal reasons a new functional iLok must be provided to
you as part of the RMA process.

You are using the correct RMA request process as there is only one available.

We hope this information helps to clear up any confusion you may have had.

Best Regards,
OK, So now you've bought the iLok twice and after they explain that you can download the Licenses to your iLok they now insist that you MUST buy a third iLok from them to house the permenent license. for 39.95 plus S&H. This means that in order to have replaced what you bought you must now purchase the product two more times plus the 30.00 fee to use the servise that insists after the fact that you must spend more money in order to obtain the service that you bought in the first place. I am looking for enough users interested in begining a class action.

Digidesign; Please note the content of this letter and the actions taken in bad faith by Pace/iLok.

[Rail Jon Rogut]

I'm unsure of the issue...

You have a bad iLok --

You download temp licenses to a spare iLok.

You send them your broken iLok so they know that it's not a scam.

They confirm it's broken and replace it if it's under warranty and return it to you with all your assets.

If it's not under warranty, they send you a new iLok which they charge you for with all your assets.

What's the problem? You have a new iLok with working assets and you still have your spare iLok.

What am I missing?

Rail

[nikki-k]

Rail- I get what this person is mad about- it is in the fine details that one might not reason out prior to the situation occuring.

Original poster: I am sory you have experienced what many of us fear. It scares the *****e out of me that anytime I go to try and use software I have paid for, it might not work due to the requirement of that little piece of plastic.

However...
Tires fail. Planes crash. TV tubes cease operating- or worse, seep or explode, causing far more damage. Idiots end up running countries. People flake out and go on shooting rampages, killing innocents.
Point? Everything and anything can fail, and most of us have come to terms with the simple fact that many seek ways to protect themselves. Much like the people you purchased licenses from have done so by utilizing the iLok system, so have you by purchasing the protection for that device. Yes, it is more expensive, qand the chance for downtime is quite scary. Yes, it would be nice to have a CHOICE of which protection scheme one wished to use- serial+query+response OR iLok.

iLok affords us the ability to use the licensed software on any system we want, even on a whim. No need to de-activate, no need to pray that some idiot has buggered the website required to get a response, etc. There are choices: dont use software requiring an iLok. Yeah, but that slims htings to almost nothing. <sigh>

So- what about your situation? Well, one way to look at it is thusly: You are the victim of the spare tire. Yep, you buy an iLok to use with your system (like a tire for your car). On the chance something could go wrong (nail, idiot with an icepick and a grudge), you buy a spare (tire, iLok). You come out of a store, and there is your car- one tire flat, and you just bought the damn thing! Grrr!!! Oh!!! Good thing you bought that spare! No downtime (minimal at least), as you put the spare on, and plan to take time to get the flat looked at tomorrow. Arrive at tire place, and they say- sorry, someone slashed your tire (or, out of warranty), and now you need to buy a new one.

OK- so it is different with the iLok- your spare is equally capable to the new one they send you. But here is the gotcha: would you not need to then buy a new spare anyway? You have a primary, and poof! broken, but you have a spare. You owned two iLoks. They send a new one, so now you have two iLoks once again. The sucky part is- it is not completely apparent that you would be shelling out cash for that "spare" right then.

Some would read the conditions and such, and instantly reason that once out of warranty, bang! auto charge for new iLok is just as good as buying one yourself, which they would have to do anyway. If they send an iLok with all the auths that were on the broken one already on it, I can totaly understand the reason: broken iLok, RMA, verify broken and contents, and then they place new auths on your account...and there is no way they know if you put them back on the same iLok.

So, once again it comes down to- do I agree with the iLok scheme of protection, or not? If not, gotta find a different way to work. If I dont, then I need to accept certain facts, the worst of which are the added expense an iLok and the accompanying license "laws" incur (license transfer fees, borken iLok replacement costs, insurance for iLok, etc.). For a thriving business owner, it should be easier to account for this cost, and simply incorporate it into life like all the other annoyances. But for us indies...well, it aint just dollars...the cents can be nearly as aggrivating to account for and justify...

Once again, sorry to hear you had that happen. AT least you were smart enough to cover yourself!
(yeah- iLok people- would be nice if you had a couple example scenarios of how the protection scenario could play out, with relevant costs...some of us simply do not reason things out like a chess game!)

[Rail Jon Rogut]

I still dont see where anything is "crooked" ??? It all just seems pretty straight forward to me -- you need a spare, and they only charge for a replacement when the old broken one is out of warranty. Your spare remains just that - a spare.

If you buy a full size spare tire for your car.. you're still going to replace the original that broke.

Rail

[davetheone]

Edit

[Rail Jon Rogut]

Dave

If you read his post.. you'll discover he had no downtime. His complaint is about having to pay for the replacement iLok.

Rail

[davetheone]

edit............

[Rail Jon Rogut]

Personally I'm sick of people stealing music and software.

Rail

[Scotty_OiArT]

Personally I'm sick of people stealing music and software.

Amen!

Davetheone - You are pissed about the possibility of there ever being downtime, and are even more pissed that you have to pay for coverage incase it occurs. May I ask do you have home insurance??? Car insurance??? What if your Harddrive fails or Motherboard goes up in smoke? You got bigger problems to fry then an iLok USB key.

Pay for your ******* plugins people!

[davetheone]

You're entitled to your opinions. I am sick and tired of software companies milking customers after their hard earned cash is already spent. BTW I already received an apologetic response and they are supposedly looking into this matter. Time to save and document that response and let the other software companies know that at least one showed some concern over this issue with the ILOK.

I LOVE IT!!!!