Pro Tools 2020 with Mojave/reinstatement plan?

[Thenewexhibit]

Hey, everyone!

How is everybody's experience with Pro Tools 2020 and Mojave? And experiences on a macbook pro retina (2015) with this combination?

I'm currently on Pro Tools 12.5.2 and I have a reinstatement plan. Thing is, I didn't realize that you have to surrender your license to use this. Problem is, I'm on Sierra, and my system works. Pro Tools 2020 (and even 2019 for that matter; maybe even 2018?) aren't qualified with Sierra, which is why I couldn't upgrade yet, and I wasn't able to make the time to do proper testing. The furthest I went was Pro Tools 12.7 or something; basically NOT beyond 12.

Thing is, how can I possibly test my system now with Pro Tools 2020 and Mojave (that's what I'm gonna upgrade to) with any reassurance of getting back to something that is stable in the event I have problems? Am I essentially just having to take a risk of updating everything, and if 2020 doesn't work properly, then it is what it is because I had to surrender Pro Tools 12? Do I get any of the other licenses; 2018 or 2019 at all? What's the scoop with this, and what are my options/my best play here?

Thanks guys, and God bless!

[Darryl Ramm]

There is a free evaluation version of Pro Tools Ultimate. Hopefully that is shipping 2020.3. Grab that and try.

[Darryl Ramm]

And as for how you get back to something stable if moving to Mojave has problems .... well as always the easiest way is you never shoot yourself in the head to start with.

Grab a spare drive or partition (Should be on an SSD nowadays) and do a full new clean install of Mojave then install 2020.3 and other needed stuff like interface drivers. Test that works, reinstall new/updated plugins etc. When everything is tested and working you can clone the new drive over the old one. All major upgrades ideally should be done like this. And Before you start, on yet another drive make a clone of your old system disk.. and remove and put that clone disk somewhere safe..... to protect yourself from finger mistakes while doing other things.

[Thenewexhibit]

Originally Posted by Darryl Ramm

And as for how you get back to something stable if moving to Mojave has problems .... well as always the easiest way is you never shoot yourself in the head to start with.

Grab a spare drive or partition (Should be on an SSD nowadays) and do a full new clean install of Mojave then install 2020.3 and other needed stuff like interface drivers. Test that works, reinstall new/updated plugins etc. When everything is tested and working you can clone the new drive over the old one. All major upgrades ideally should be done like this. And Before you start, on yet another drive make a clone of your old system disk.. and remove and put that clone disk somewhere safe..... to protect yourself from finger mistakes while doing other things.

Got ya! Thanks for the reply, dude! So, just to wrap my head around this;I don't run a professional facility, so I'm admittedly bad at the whole backup stay up to date thing.. Not very smart, I know.

But, would a sufficient option be, make a backup of my computer, upgrade to Mojave, install the free trial of Pro Tools 2020 (I don't need ultimate) on my computer and see how it runs, and if all is good, do a clean install and go for it, if not revert back to where I was, or maybe even try Catalina? I ask this because I don't have a spare SSD or partition, so it would require me to wipe my computer.
I also thought I read in the past that you can change the extension name of Pro Tools and install two different versions at the same time, and people do that for testing purposes. Is that alright to do and worth trying?

I also take it that when I do my reinstatement plan, I won't be able to have access to Pro Tools 2018 or 2019, correct? Or will it give me those as legacy installers?

[ehaber]

You should double check with Avid on what you get with surrendering your license. At some point, possibly with one of the middle iterations of Pro Tools 12, for the next Pro Tools 12 upgrade, they required surrendering of the license, but what you got back was a new license that was still authorized for Pro Tools 10/11/12 and which, to date, even with paying the yearly updates so that I can run Pro Tools 2020, the iLok authorization is still good for 10,11/12. (So I actually have my Macbook Pro partitioned, with Mojave on one partition and an earlier operating system on the smaller partition so that I can run Pro Tool 10 for instances where I have to open and convert an older project with SDII files.) I have a feeling that your case may result in a replacement that includes 10/11/12, but I'd absolutely suggest confirming that with Avid. In any case, I have an older Macbook Pro than yours (mid 2012, the last version pre the Retina) and I'm running Pro Tool 2020 on my Mojave partition with no issues, for whatever that's worth.

[Thenewexhibit]

Originally Posted by ehaber

You should double check with Avid on what you get with surrendering your license. At some point, possibly with one of the middle iterations of Pro Tools 12, for the next Pro Tools 12 upgrade, they required surrendering of the license, but what you got back was a new license that was still authorized for Pro Tools 10/11/12 and which, to date, even with paying the yearly updates so that I can run Pro Tools 2020, the iLok authorization is still good for 10,11/12. (So I actually have my Macbook Pro partitioned, with Mojave on one partition and an earlier operating system on the smaller partition so that I can run Pro Tool 10 for instances where I have to open and convert an older project with SDII files.) I have a feeling that your case may result in a replacement that includes 10/11/12, but I'd absolutely suggest confirming that with Avid. In any case, I have an older Macbook Pro than yours (mid 2012, the last version pre the Retina) and I'm running Pro Tool 2020 on my Mojave partition with no issues, for whatever that's worth.

Rad! Thank you very much! I do appreciate it about the input with your computer with Mojave and Pro Tools 2020! Which version of 2020 are you running?
Admittedly, I would love to check about this with Avid, but I feel like they're pretty hard to get a hold of and have no clue how to do so haha how does that work? Right now, my pro tools 12 is perpetual, so I don't think this gets me the rights to speak to them or inquire in any way, no? Not to sound mean; it's their business practice, but I think getting in touch with them is for subscribers, no?

[Darryl Ramm]

Originally Posted by Thenewexhibit

Got ya! Thanks for the reply, dude! So, just to wrap my head around this;I don't run a professional facility, so I'm admittedly bad at the whole backup stay up to date thing.. Not very smart, I know.

But, would a sufficient option be, make a backup of my computer, upgrade to Mojave, install the free trial of Pro Tools 2020 (I don't need ultimate) on my computer and see how it runs, and if all is good, do a clean install and go for it, if not revert back to where I was, or maybe even try Catalina? I ask this because I don't have a spare SSD or partition, so it would require me to wipe my computer.
I also thought I read in the past that you can change the extension name of Pro Tools and install two different versions at the same time, and people do that for testing purposes. Is that alright to do and worth trying?

I also take it that when I do my reinstatement plan, I won't be able to have access to Pro Tools 2018 or 2019, correct? Or will it give me those as legacy installers?

I said pretty clearly the best way to do this, and you are asking something different. Why are you talking about wiping anything? To save yourself from potentially total loss of a working system by some simple mistake go and get a new SSD. Tell us exactly what Mac you have and current drives I will recommend a new drive to purchase. And if you are not making clone backups today, well you may need to buy another drive and start doing that before you do anything else.

There is never a good reason to be doing stuff that trashes you system, it's much better to work so that the time to recover is the time it takes to reboot from a known working drive. "Known working" does not include clone backups unless you test them carefully, and if you are not making clone backups today, I would not trust your first try at it to save your ass when you screw up. (but I'd still make one as insurance).

Avid only provides a free trial of Ultimate, so just use that. If it works you can then use the new 2020 standard license you purchase. It's exactly the same software installed on disk. And have you checked you have all the plugins you need and are compatible with this upgrade... start downloading their latest/compatible installers.

Doing a clean macOS installs has discussed here many times before, and is all over the web. You can Google for how to do a clean install on your Mac. Normally you download and run the installer from the Apple store... but that is an issue, the store will likely only offer you Catalina today unless you have downloaded Mojave before... so check and if you don't have it you should start by contacting Apple support begging them to get you a Mojave installer... and explain to them why you need it for what compatibility reason. ... (and why do you need Mojave and not Catalina? If you are only doing audio and don't know of any issues I'd just try Catalina to start with... is your Mac hardware listed as suitable for each macOS version?).

And when you run that installer when it asks you--do *not* do an update, select the full install on a new drive option. I can't even recall what that looks likes, you can find all that online.

[Thenewexhibit]

Originally Posted by Darryl Ramm

I said pretty clearly the best way to do this, and you are asking something different. Why are you talking about wiping anything? To save yourself from potentially total loss of a working system by some simple mistake go and get a new SSD. Tell us exactly what Mac you have and current drives I will recommend a new drive to purchase. And if you are not making clone backups today, well you may need to buy another drive and start doing that before you do anything else.

There is never a good reason to be doing stuff that trashes you system, it's much better to work so that the time to recover is the time it takes to reboot from a known working drive. "Known working" does not include clone backups unless you test them carefully, and if you are not making clone backups today, I would not trust your first try at it to save your ass when you screw up. (but I'd still make one as insurance).

Avid only provides a free trial of Ultimate, so just use that. If it works you can then use the new 2020 standard license you purchase. It's exactly the same software installed on disk. And have you checked you have all the plugins you need and are compatible with this upgrade... start downloading their latest/compatible installers.

Doing a clean macOS installs has discussed here many times before, and is all over the web. You can Google for how to do a clean install on your Mac. Normally you download and run the installer from the Apple store... but that is an issue, the store will likely only offer you Catalina today unless you have downloaded Mojave before... so check and if you don't have it you should start by contacting Apple support begging them to get you a Mojave installer... and explain to them why you need it for what compatibility reason. ... (and why do you need Mojave and not Catalina? If you are only doing audio and don't know of any issues I'd just try Catalina to start with... is your Mac hardware listed as suitable for each macOS version?).

And when you run that installer when it asks you--do *not* do an update, select the full install on a new drive option. I can't even recall what that looks likes, you can find all that online.

And so you did! I didn't even realize either that I couldn't try PT 2020 with Sierra anyway, so that's a moot point. My bad! I was looking for a different work around because like you said, you wouldn't trust my first try to safe myself with all of this, I will need a little help with all of this if you don't mind bearing with me. I really do appreciate your time, Darryl!

As for my computer, it's a 2015 macbook pro retina with 1TB internal SSD, 2.8GHz intel i7, 16GB ram. I'm running my sessions off of a samsung EVO 860 external SSD and my samples are on another separate one of those.
Would the same samsung EVO 860 external 1TB drive be good for making a clone and for testing a new OS and PT version?

Also, is Time Machine trash? It's the only backing up I've been doing on a 3TB 7200 RPM drive, along with saving my sessions on another partition of that drive.

Is there a specific cloning program that's best for this? I have no idea how all of this works, so that's why I'm asking the experienced and pros for help :)

Also, if I find that that setup works; whichever OS I go with, PT 2020, all of my plugins, etc., at that point, would it be best to clone my computer, then have my new system be put right onto the computer's internal 1TB SSD? I would have to start from scratch on there, and I know you said wiping it is not good, BUT, if I have to surrender PT12 to do this, what is the point of me having an old OS since the only reason I would need it is for PT 12, which I won't own anymore? That seems logical to me after the testing; Am I missing something there?

Also, I wanted to go to Mojave because I feel like I've been seeing more people talk about the success of Mojave and PT than there are about Catalina. I have a friend who feels the same way too. Maybe things have changed and I'm out of the loop?

I knew I just threw a lot at you, but I really do appreciate your time, Darryl! Hope to hear from you soon, and God bless.

Mike.

Also, I just read that you said rebooting from a known working drive is not preferable with a clone drive... What is considered a "known working" drive or what does that mean then if I'm wanting to run PT from my internal 1TB SSD?

EDIT: On another note, I just heard back from Avid confirming via their facebook page through messenger that upon surrendering my license, I will then get new legacy perpetual licenses for 10/11/12 along with 2018 and 2019, so that makes testing a little safer I think!

[Darryl Ramm]

Originally Posted by Thenewexhibit

And so you did! I didn't even realize either that I couldn't try PT 2020 with Sierra anyway, so that's a moot point. My bad! I was looking for a different work around because like you said, you wouldn't trust my first try to safe myself with all of this, I will need a little help with all of this if you don't mind bearing with me. I really do appreciate your time, Darryl!

As for my computer, it's a 2015 macbook pro retina with 1TB internal SSD, 2.8GHz intel i7, 16GB ram. I'm running my sessions off of a samsung EVO 860 external SSD and my samples are on another separate one of those.
Would the same samsung EVO 860 external 1TB drive be good for making a clone and for testing a new OS and PT version?

Since that's a Thunderbolt 2 computer and current Thunderbolt 3 drives won't work with it your best option is to stick with USB3/3.1 drives. My first choice there would be a Samsung T5. https://www.amazon.com/Samsung-T5-Po.../dp/B073H552FJ

For installing stuff and testing get an SSD, for making clones maybe an SSD as well, but for long term archive of sessions I would use good quality HDDs. They are cheaper and may have better reliability over time that a SSD left unused.

Also, is Time Machine trash? It's the only backing up I've been doing on a 3TB 7200 RPM drive, along with saving my sessions on another partition of that drive.

Time Machine would not be my first choice for recovering boot/OS drives. It's a poor choice compared to cloning your boot drive... where you can get running again by just connecting your clone drive, rebooting while holding down the options key and selecting to boot off that clone. In the time it takes to reboot you can be up and running again. Time machine can be useful for general user file backups, but it's really just not something I would use.

Is there a specific cloning program that's best for this? I have no idea how all of this works, so that's why I'm asking the experienced and pros for help :)

Yes Carbon Copy Cloner (aka CCC). https://bombich.com

Also, if I find that that setup works; whichever OS I go with, PT 2020, all of my plugins, etc., at that point, would it be best to clone my computer, then have my new system be put right onto the computer's internal 1TB SSD? I would have to start from scratch on there, and I know you said wiping it is not good, BUT, if I have to surrender PT12 to do this, what is the point of me having an old OS since the only reason I would need it is for PT 12, which I won't own anymore? That seems logical to me after the testing; Am I missing something there?

If stuff all works on the external T5 you just clone that drive over what is on the internal drive. (after you get user file and accounts copied to the external drive).

Just don't assume stuff will work, you are assuming you don't screw up. I assume there is a good chance things won't work and I might screw up and I never put myself in a position where doing that will really hurt. I also assume that testing stuff will take hours, maybe over more than one day. And I may need to go back and work on the old OS install while doing that. I would just leave the normal drive alone, do all the dangerous stuff to the external T5 drive and prove that all works OK and then clone that T5 drive over your internal drive when you are totally confident you don't need anything on that drive again (and move user accounts and other documents off that drive onto the external drive before you blow away the internal drive. You can use the system migration utility to do that... but only to move accounts and files not applications and drivers. (it's lovingly called "system mangler utility" for what happens if you try that... you need to install all drivers, applications, and plugins by hand from their current up to date installers.

Also, I wanted to go to Mojave because I feel like I've been seeing more people talk about the success of Mojave and PT than there are about Catalina. I have a friend who feels the same way too. Maybe things have changed and I'm out of the loop?

I would not assume that. If things don't work well people start screaming here. I don't hear screaming and unless you need video support I'm not aware of major issues... but you need to check plugin and interface driver compatibility. And getting the Catalina installer is likely easier. Your 2015 MBP is Catlina compatible. For all the hassle of doing a careful clean upgrade, I'd probably just go to Calaina, unless you found a reason not to.

Also, I just read that you said rebooting from a known working drive is not preferable with a clone drive... What is considered a "known working" drive or what does that mean then if I'm wanting to run PT from my internal 1TB SSD?

A drive you have tested, booted from, started up Pro Tools, checked sessions open etc. Then shutdown and removed from the computer and put somewhere safe. Don't leave you backups connected, too easy to destroy any drives connected to the computer with a finger mistake. ideally store multiple clones in different places.... but an OS drive clone should not be super valuable, you might not say put one offsite or store a copy in the cloud.

And you ideally need more than one clone backup. A common time to discover you have a corrupted boot drive is when the clone/backup software (Carbon Copy Cloner recommended) is in the middle of cloning that drive and can't read stuff on the damaged/corrupted boot drive... and it's part way through overwriting your clone drive. So now both drives may be useless. Same can happen with Time Machine. So a good boot drive backup scheme uses several drives, rotating clones on them, maybe made periodically, or certainly before any upgrades. Losing a boot drive backup may or may not be the end of the world, depends on if you can take the hit in time it take to do a full clean install of everything (hour to ~day depending on how organized you are).

Personally I'll more use clones to save what's installed before updates/change, and even though sessions and users documents on my MBP are on the same fast internal boot SSD, I back those up more frequently.. like daily, copying sessions to an external HDD or NAS server. Taking copies off site, copying to a cloud storage, etc.. These are your/your clients sessions, super valuable. Make sure what you have on the backups are correct. e.g. if you drag and drop individual sessions or the whole session folder onto another drive them make sure all the media content is really in those folders. ... and if you really ever screw up then the boot disk clones may provide a fail back there.

And yes I'm suggesting you do some redundant things, start by making a clone of your current boot disk with CCC so you are getting used to using that.nd have a way to get stuff back if you realize you made a mistake in a month or two. Put that aside. Then do a clean install on a T5. test. Cline over the od boot disk. That T5 is now a backup clone of your current system.

And you have session today on an external drive. If you have enough space you likely could run them fine off the fast PCIe 2 x 4 internal SSD... and turn that external drive into one of your clone or archive drives.

EDIT: On another note, I just heard back from Avid confirming via their facebook page through messenger that upon surrendering my license, I will then get new legacy perpetual licenses for 10/11/12 along with 2018 and 2019, so that makes testing a little safer I think!

That's nice but if your test does not work you are still out of money, you can test on Ultimate for free. This is more useful if you want to maintain two separate boot volumes and can switch between them if you need to go back to an old version of Pro Tools. But that's not what I think you are after, so it's not really any help over just testing on 2020.3 Ultimate.

[Thenewexhibit]

Originally Posted by Darryl Ramm

Since that's a Thunderbolt 2 computer and current Thunderbolt 3 drives won't work with it your best option is to stick with USB3/3.1 drives. My first choice there would be a Samsung T5. https://www.amazon.com/Samsung-T5-Po.../dp/B073H552FJ

For installing stuff and testing get an SSD, for making clones maybe an SSD as well, but for long term archive of sessions I would use good quality HDDs. They are cheaper and may have better reliability over time that a SSD left unused.



Time Machine would not be my first choice for recovering boot/OS drives. It's a poor choice compared to cloning your boot drive... where you can get running again by just connecting your clone drive, rebooting while holding down the options key and selecting to boot off that clone. In the time it takes to reboot you can be up and running again. Time machine can be useful for general user file backups, but it's really just not something I would use.



Yes Carbon Copy Cloner (aka CCC). https://bombich.com



If stuff all works on the external T5 you just clone that drive over what is on the internal drive. (after you get user file and accounts copied to the external drive).

Just don't assume stuff will work, you are assuming you don't screw up. I assume there is a good chance things won't work and I might screw up and I never put myself in a position where doing that will really hurt. I also assume that testing stuff will take hours, maybe over more than one day. And I may need to go back and work on the old OS install while doing that. I would just leave the normal drive alone, do all the dangerous stuff to the external T5 drive and prove that all works OK and then clone that T5 drive over your internal drive when you are totally confident you don't need anything on that drive again (and move user accounts and other documents off that drive onto the external drive before you blow away the internal drive. You can use the system migration utility to do that... but only to move accounts and files not applications and drivers. (it's lovingly called "system mangler utility" for what happens if you try that... you need to install all drivers, applications, and plugins by hand from their current up to date installers.



I would not assume that. If things don't work well people start screaming here. I don't hear screaming and unless you need video support I'm not aware of major issues... but you need to check plugin and interface driver compatibility. And getting the Catalina installer is likely easier. Your 2015 MBP is Catlina compatible. For all the hassle of doing a careful clean upgrade, I'd probably just go to Calaina, unless you found a reason not to.



A drive you have tested, booted from, started up Pro Tools, checked sessions open etc. Then shutdown and removed from the computer and put somewhere safe. Don't leave you backups connected, too easy to destroy any drives connected to the computer with a finger mistake. ideally store multiple clones in different places.... but an OS drive clone should not be super valuable, you might not say put one offsite or store a copy in the cloud.

And you ideally need more than one clone backup. A common time to discover you have a corrupted boot drive is when the clone/backup software (Carbon Copy Cloner recommended) is in the middle of cloning that drive and can't read stuff on the damaged/corrupted boot drive... and it's part way through overwriting your clone drive. So now both drives may be useless. Same can happen with Time Machine. So a good boot drive backup scheme uses several drives, rotating clones on them, maybe made periodically, or certainly before any upgrades. Losing a boot drive backup may or may not be the end of the world, depends on if you can take the hit in time it take to do a full clean install of everything (hour to ~day depending on how organized you are).

Personally I'll more use clones to save what's installed before updates/change, and even though sessions and users documents on my MBP are on the same fast internal boot SSD, I back those up more frequently.. like daily, copying sessions to an external HDD or NAS server. Taking copies off site, copying to a cloud storage, etc.. These are your/your clients sessions, super valuable. Make sure what you have on the backups are correct. e.g. if you drag and drop individual sessions or the whole session folder onto another drive them make sure all the media content is really in those folders. ... and if you really ever screw up then the boot disk clones may provide a fail back there.

And yes I'm suggesting you do some redundant things, start by making a clone of your current boot disk with CCC so you are getting used to using that.nd have a way to get stuff back if you realize you made a mistake in a month or two. Put that aside. Then do a clean install on a T5. test. Cline over the od boot disk. That T5 is now a backup clone of your current system.

And you have session today on an external drive. If you have enough space you likely could run them fine off the fast PCIe 2 x 4 internal SSD... and turn that external drive into one of your clone or archive drives.



That's nice but if your test does not work you are still out of money, you can test on Ultimate for free. This is more useful if you want to maintain two separate boot volumes and can switch between them if you need to go back to an old version of Pro Tools. But that's not what I think you are after, so it's not really any help over just testing on 2020.3 Ultimate.

Darryl!!! I really appreciate it, dude!!! I'm sorry for the late reply too. I will definitely look into all of this and reference this for doing all of the work I need. I may have to resurrect this thread and ask a couple more questions when the time comes, but I just wanted to say thank you for all of your help and information on these topics! I know it takes some time to organize and answer all of these questions, so I really do appreciate you taking the time!!! Stay safe and God bless!!!