Daw sum cd by Lynn Fuston very helpful !!

[Zownd]

No. They probably wont (different D/A-converters) but the difference will still be there . Play it from Peak or Spark or whatever if the PT-mixer bothers you so much.

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">My main concern is that different systems will create different results and therefore hard to judge. I think it would be best to listen to it on a system that hasn't been inthis test. A protools summing out of protools might sound really good, because it is in it's own enviroment.

I personally don't have any problems with the PT mixer!!
I am just curious what all the fuzz is about. [img]images/icons/grin.gif[/img]

[ckevperry]

Originally posted by Zownd:
My main concern is that different systems will create different results and therefore hard to judge. I think it would be best to listen to it on a system that hasn't been inthis test. A protools summing out of protools might sound really good, because it is in it's own enviroment. [img]images/icons/grin.gif[/img]

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">No it won't matter when playing back a single stereo file with unity fader, with no dither and no plugins. There is NO summing/math being done. The output will be bit for bit identical to the input data. The only factor coloring what you hear is the D/A's , cabling and speakers.

[audio1234]

All 30 tracks have been mixed down with different summing methods to stereo tracks.

Now what you listen to them on,Different da's,different platforms,different rooms etc etc will all sound different,but the original test results(the summing) will still be exposed.

When looking at the sun through a window it is bright, the brightness does not change on the other side of glass by the quality of the glass does it? [img]images/icons/rolleyes.gif[/img]

[dave-G]

Originally posted by audio1234:
When looking at the sun through a window it is bright, the brightness does not change on the other side of glass by the quality of the glass does it? [img]images/icons/rolleyes.gif[/img]

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Good point, but bad analogy (unless you're being cryptically sarcastic). Glass certainly can affect the brightness of light, but that's a topic for another forum (sorry).

-dave

[audio1234]

I don't know if I'm too cryptic,but I don't believe on the other side of the glass it changes at all. [img]images/icons/cool.gif[/img]

[Zownd]

Now what you listen to them on,Different da's,different platforms,different rooms etc etc will all sound different,but the original test results(the summing) will still be exposed.

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">and this was my question!! will it?? coloured glass wil change it and so will coloured DA converters. [img]images/icons/grin.gif[/img] at least I asume that [img]images/icons/confused.gif[/img]

[stoneinapond]

and this was my question!! will it?? coloured glass wil change it and so will coloured DA converters. at least I asume that

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">If I play a track on my system, and you play the same track on your (different) system then the track will sound different due to the effect of D/A's and monitoring.

If I play all the tracks on my system, they are all being equally affected by my D/A and monitoring system. So the difference between them is still there. The same applies to your system. You are looking for differences.

Where a problem will occur is when you start making subjective judgements as to which sounded better. The reason being that your system (which includes your complete audio environment) may change the overall performance of a particular track - you know, your room is boomy, your D/A plays with the overall sound etc.

I haven't listened to the tests yet, and perhaps a really good pair of headphones will remove the problems of a poor environment.

[froyo]

Hello. I have been following this with interest, and I think I may already have read too much to actually do this without bias. Apparently we already know that #30 is PT 5.1, so I guess I can't honestly do this now and have it be as 'objective' as the rest.

Some interesting things. If I read it right, the only analog mix that fared well overall was the SSL9000J. Ironically, the J is not favored by some people who tend to be 'purists', who instead will go on about how the G sounds better. So even in the analog realm, there seems to be some internal controversy. As a side note, since J's are a major force in mixing major label music, it may account for a lot of the comments about today's music.

Overall for me what it has shown me, it has reinforced my belief that by and large, our beloved industry has a lot more 'voodoo' or 'snake oil' than any of us care to accept. I seem to recall that at some AES convention years ago a blind CD vs. Vinyl test was done and the results were, ehh, mixed.

NS10's are an example for me. I have always hated them. ALWAYS. I have always thought that they were as useful as a piece of lint and they sound just as good. The fact that they have been used everywhere by professionals in every level of music recording, mixing, etc. made it even more puzzling. The most common comment is, yeah they sound like crap, but if you make things sound good on them, they will sound good anywhere.

I have never understood that. To me that logic is exactly the same as say, putting burning weasels on your ears. Hell, if you can make anything good sound with that, it'll sound good right? But why put yourself through that? Anyway, the moral for me is that audio engineers are just as superstitious as say, pitchers that don't wash their underwear when they are winning.

Is it based on any factual reality, science, acoustics, electrics, electronics? NO. Analog sounds better, I can hear it every time. Neve=good, DAW mix bus=bad. We all carry some 'snake oil' fantasies in our head about what sounds 'good', what is 'pristine', 'warm', 'open'. Do they have any basis in reality?

That is a hard question, because the answer is as subjective as the individual. One man's crap is another man's brilliant. One man's 'pristine' is another man's 'deficient'.

All that aside, it should be an eye opener to everyone. Because this is not a mmatter of somebody's taste. It's a matter of somebody saying "I like Brand A vanilla ice cream because it's creamier; Brand B just doesn't have the same body and flavor. I can tell every time" Of course then a blind test shows otherwise.

What does that say about that person? Maybe it shows an insecurity within that individual, which presents itself by their need to reinforce and justify their habits. Aristotle once said (roughly), the more I learn, the less I know, or the only thing that I am sure of is that I am not sure of anything.

I think the fact that some of the leading professionals in our field have some fresh egg on their face, makes me look at myself and look for the 'snake oil' fantasies that I am propagating that have no factual basis in any reality.

[Philthy]

But I like the way the NS-10's sound. Does that mean I don't get any ice-cream?

[Tone]

I know what you mean about NS10's. I cant understand myself on this because they do sound really naff when you think about it but at the same time I always find something very comfortable about them. There's nothing like working up a mix on decent monitors and switching onto NS10's. They always give me instant reality orientation - does that make sense?

BTW Hi Lynn, nice experiments