OK, so here's a serious question for Avid regarding "openness"...

[YYR123]

Originally Posted by junkgear

As far as the stand alone editor goes, since the 11r already supports ASIO, the editor should support the VST standard so it can be used effectively in other DAWs.

No man - aax

And the pedal board idea - sounds like happy users and happy Company $$$. Win/Win

[Max Gutnik]

Thanks, Richpjr, what in particular is making you consider getting something else?

[richpjr]

Originally Posted by Max Gutnik

Thanks, Richpjr, what in particular is making you consider getting something else?

I'd be happy with one of two things - a stand alone editor or a more reasonable upgrade price from PT8LE to PT10. I use OS X Lion and cannot run 8LE as it is not supported. I guess a third option would be official support for 8LE under Lion, but I realize that is probably not very realistic.

Having to spend $500 for an upgrade (not to mention having to also buy an iLok) when that is now included for no charge (along with the expansion pack I also bought) with the exact same hardware I purchased less than a year ago is something I am just not willing to do. The upgrade price is way out of line with the industry is charging. I recently picked up Logic Pro for $160 (had some 20% off coupons for iTunes gift cards) for my brother for his birthday. He loves it. No iLok or requirement for an 11R to be turned on. Can use it both of his Macs. No fuss. That is for a full copy. I'd spend $100-$200 to upgrade. I'd even pay a modest amount for a stand alone editor. But as much as I love my 11R, I guess on principal I just can't see doing it when I can buy a competing product like a HD500 or GT-100 for roughly the price of a software upgrade.

[derker]

Although Max hasn't replied to my post directly...

What's mostly driving me away from my 11r is the delay in the switching. It takes an extremely conscientious effort to footswitch at exactly the right moment before the downbeat in order to minimize the audible effect of the delay in switching. If the footswitch is pressed exactly on the downbeat, the sound comes in late and sounds very messy. I sometimes resort to just stopping the playing a few counts before the next measure just so i can get the switching out of the way so I can come in on beat. It's kind of an unacceptable work around in my opinion, especially considering that today's cheap modelers (Pod HD, Zoom G-series) have virtually instantaneous switching.

Personally, I have zero interest in an Avid foot controller. I can see the appeal but I don't personally see any advantage to using an Avid controller as opposed to a GCP, Liquid Foot, etc. I'm using a Behringer and it works just fine. Development and manufacturing of such a product from Avid would probably put the price beyond anything I'd personally be willing to pay for essentially just another MIDI controller. Also keep in mind that 11r does not support phantom power over MIDI.

Finally, what would cement 11r in my rack (besides the nut & bolt tightening I've already mentioned in my previous post, and bug fixes) is User IRs. Impulse Responses are now industry standard for DI recording. While the included cabs sound great and cover a pretty good range of sounds, the ability to user custom IRs would open 11r's uses significantly. Especially if it could be in a discrete movable "IR Player" block, users could load acoustic impulses and place them at the beginning of the chain for interesting acoustic type tones, or a jazz box impulse for such tones...put it at the end and load up an impulse of a toy for interesting sounds...the creative possibilities are endless if Avid is willing to open the door. Funny thing is, when ERXP was first released, User IRs were mentioned by the Avid dudes as something that was supposed to make it into the pack, but wasn't completed in time. Now a year later, the communication has died down significantly, almost completely.

[Max Gutnik]

Thanks, Derker.

[derker]

Originally Posted by Max Gutnik

Thanks, Derker.

No, thank you for reading. Seriously, and genuinely.

[TieDyedDevil]

Thank you, Max, for joining the conversation. Much appreciated...

I have little to add to what's already been said here. I'd only like to restate my suggestion that Avid encourage third-party developers to support Eleven Rack for use in performance rigs. Whether Avid has plans to shore up Eleven Rack for use in live guitar rigs, this application is clearly not Avid's strong suit at the moment.

It's been, what, three years since the product's introduction? Those of us who prefer the Eleven Rack as a component of our live guitar rig have been consistently frustrated by absence of a lightweight tool to support patch backup, restore, organization and editing. Some of us have chosen to "work without a net", so to speak. Others have turned to competing products whose vendors offer this essential functionality without an expensive tie-in to a DAW.

Anticipating suggestions to stick with the bundled PT and stay off the upgrade treadmill, let me say this: Many of your Eleven Rack customers are guitarists first and foremost. While we may be aware that serious recordists build computer systems just to run ProTools, we are not serious recordists. If we load PT onto our computer - often the same computer that we use for email, web surfing, household organization, etc. - we most certainly do not want that ProTools installation to freeze our OS and all of our applications at a level that just happens to work with the "free" ProTools.

Seriously: have you *read* the *chapter* of the Eleven Rack manual that describes how to prepare a computer system for a "supported" ProTools installation? I read that before I bought my Eleven Rack; given a choice between having a computer that's usable for the majority of my daily needs and being able to run ProTools to back up my patches, I chose to discard the free ProTools, eat the cost and forego the ability to do backups.

I bear no ill will toward Avid for not including a standalone editor / librarian / backup program with my Eleven Rack. I knew it wasn't there before I committed to the purchase. But you asked what Avid can do to be more open w.r.t. Eleven Rack: Priority one should be to allow those of us who are merely guitarists to sever the ProTools tie-in if we so desire.

Priority two, in my book at least, should be for Avid to facilitate two-way communication - both via MIDI and USB - between Eleven Rack and other devices. Give third parties an opportunity to expand acceptance of Eleven Rack by supplying the related products that do not directy support Avid's core business interests.

Thanks for listening.

[Max Gutnik]

Good stuff, TDD. Definitely want to create a great live experience with Eleven Rack. Thanks for your thoughts.

[filosofem]

Originally Posted by Max Gutnik

what in particular is making you consider getting something else?

That's the smart money.

[Hellbat]

#1 for me would be a standalone editor that would allow me to save my patches and share them easily with a community of others. My hard disk died on my PC and for some reason my Protools CD doesn't read anymore so I can't re-install the application.

I don't really use my 11 Rack for recording, I just use it for practice at home and playing out with the band so I don't miss having Protools installed, I just miss being able to share sounds.