OT: DP 5 & Streamers

[Ginger]

Is anyone using Digital Performer 5 to generate streamers for an orchestral scoring session?

How does it compare to Auricle? Is it pretty easy to make changes on the stage?

I'm looking to avoid using Auricle or any external gear to generate if possible.

What I'd like to do is import a midi file to Performer from logic and then program in the streamers. We'll be using quicktime files to score to.

Any info would be greatly appreciated especially from anyone who's actually done it. This is for a major studio feature, so big orchestra, etc. and not a great time for experiments. I would be learning/working out the kinks well beforehand.

TIA

[CPettigrew]

Well, yes and no. The new streamer function in DP5 is not entirely functional; the streamer overlay to QT will work (somewhat) on a computer screen, but you cannot output that through firewire, i.e. to a Canopus box. (By "somewhat" it should be noted that, on the computer screen the punch at the end of the streamer is not always completely in sync with the click, and the streamer itself, even on a G5 2.5, is less than smooth, stuttering somewhat.)

That said, there's a checkbox to indicate your streamer hardware, and even though I have the ClickStreamMachine, DP tells me it's "Not Present." So what do I do? Continue using the Tesla_Streamers Clippings from DP eons ago, program my three foot streamers, and offset by two seconds. That still works. I wish though that they would make the feature work as advertised because MOTU has this annoying habit of trumpeting features that don't always work as they should.

Another thing that I do is to create a DP session with all the midi tracks necessary to have each and every possible streamer length, color, and punch option. Save as a standard midi file, and import that into ProTools, with the midi tracks showing SysEx. Then you can click on the SysEx of your choice in Spot mode and place the streamers wherever you like, in bar/beat mode, or timecode (remembering the 2 second offset for a three foot streamer, 3.33 for a five foot streamer) When I have a bunch of pre-records on a session, this works well for me, especially if there's a need to do any editing of the pre-record during scoring.

The plus side of Auricle is the ability to retime and remeter sections of a cue during an "on the stand" rewrite. I cannot do that as quickly in DP or PT. One (of many) Auricle caveats: If someone hands you a midi file/tempo map generated in DP (or Logic or PT) and let's say you export that into Auricle, and then record clicks on both Auricle and the program the midi file originated from, you'll find anywhere from a 10ms to a 40ms difference in the two clicks, with the Auricle click not even locking to its own offset, as it were. You can nudge the start of the Auricle file to more closely align with the original click, but there's enough fluctuation that, if your're recording orchestra and there are pre-records the orch has to play in sync to, the Auricle click is not your friend. I will always record click in the sequencer where the cue originated from, and import that in to either DP or PT, and make sure it sticks to the pre-record. (MOTU in MAS has a Urei click sound, and ProTools has an MPC click sound that works well. And don't forget TL Metro for many more click sounds, and the ability to automate click, cool when suddenly they want to move into an 8th note click....Another thing Auricle does better on the fly...)

If no pre-records, than all of that is moot. One good thing about the Tesla Clippings is the drag and drop nature of the streamers/punches (and then Apple-L ((Ithink)) to shift forward by two seconds).

Hope this helps.

Craig

[Phil Jeffers]

Hey, you may want to post this question here they're a friendly bunch. Not condescending either.

[CPettigrew]

I did not mean to be condescending, just thorough.

In order to do what you want to do, without further hardware (and this gets tricky on a big, orchestral date with lots of suits running about) is to run a second monitor off your computer to the podium, dragging the video window to that monitor for the conductor to see the streamers. Then that leaves you with no way to display the video in the studio's TV monitors, unless your second monitor is sent first to a video amp/splitter. If this is the way you go, then yes, in DP 5.0 you can easily create streamers in the Markers window, and the offset gets taken care of. Again, the streamers look a little jagged, and there are still some timing issues (not huge but there) between the click and the punch, but if it's just a visual reference, it may not bother the conductor.

If the stage doesn't have a way to split your 2nd monitor signal, you may think about something like Virtual VTR to chase; that way pure video signal (without streamers)can be projected in the monitors.

Craig

[Phil Jeffers]

Hi Craig, I didn't mean to say you were being condescending at all mate, to tell you the truth, I didn't even fully read your post. I saw that the question was re: MOTU DP 5 & thought the Unicornation link may be of some help. I was tempted to scour through my DP 5 manual to find answers (I want to use this for ADR recording myself) but thought I might 'hand-ball' it on (an Australian football term). I remember reading that DP 5 has extra functions with the good ol' Digital Timepiece, including streamers.

[minister]

If the stage doesn't have a way to split your 2nd monitor signal, you may think about something like Virtual VTR to chase; that way pure video signal (without streamers)can be projected in the monitors.

hi, i don't know as much you guys about this subject, but doesn't VVTR PRO do streamers?

VIRTUAL VTR PRO WEBSITE

[CPettigrew]

Yes, VVTR PRO does do streamers, but not the kind we're used to doing on the scoring stage. (Caveat: I did a quick look-see at VVTR PRO, and decided quickly that it wasn't the best solution or even alternative for scoring. It does seem to be set up nicely for ADR. Someone correct me if I'm wrong)

The lengths (and colors) of streamers are derived from the old streamer boards, where emulsion was scribed off and the new clean line was often times colored in: yellow for warn, green for downbeat, red for stop, and blue for clicks off; "white" streamers were meant for internal "hit" points and, along with 3-5-7 hole flutters (punched into the film with a hole punch), can be used as visual reference points, i.e, downbeats, or sync points you have to get to, helpful if the clicks are off and the conductor is doing the cue (or portion thereof) in free time.

The old streamer boards were 3 and 5 feet; 3 feet takes 2 seconds to cross the screen, 5 feet 3.33 seconds. If you made a mistake (in the old film days) you had to take the chunk of film out and replace it with clear or yellow leader, and re-scribe it. In those days, one was VERY careful before scribing and punching. Thank God for the computer programs; DP has made a nice stab at incorporating what Cue and Auricle, the former left behind in OS9 and the other dependant upon midi hardware from the Reagan administration, did so well. I just wish DP would finish their work before declaring success. It doesn't "see" my ClickStreamMachine" as it says it will, and it cannot as of yet output streamers over QT through firewire. I can use DP5, but I have to use the Tesla Streamers Clippings (copied over from ancient versions of DP).

MOTU borrowed the ClickStreamMachine for some time, but they don't seem to have understood how to bring it (and the outrageously expensive CueLine) properly into the fold. Unfortunately, the streamers out of the Digital Timepiece are left wanting.... It's such a small niche market; I wish Digi would incorporate these film scoring apps into ProTools.

That would be cool.

Craig

[Phil Jeffers]

Hi, a Aurora Fuse-X card may fix the QT problem with the steamers, I'm not sure... Drop Aurora an email. they're very helpful and prompt in their replies. I've been using (the newer) Fuse-X with PT's & DP's latest versions, as well as latest Mac OS (10.4.6) seamlessly for tracklay and mixing, outputting composite out of the Aurora card to a large monitor. It looks great and will support just about any QT codec you care to through at it. Perhaps worth some investigation.

[CPettigrew]

Yeah, I would bet that card does work, but I really need it to work out firewire, or the streamers over QT is a no go. I don't have room for another card (not about to get an expannsion chassis) and since MOTU likes to advertise that it "works," they should make it so. What Ginger wants to do is to put out streamers via DP without the extra hardware. Right now, I loop my QT/Canopus video through my ClickStreamMachine (which DP 5 has a checkbox for, even though the program doesn't "see" it) pull in my streamers via thhe Tesla Clippings, and all is well with the world. But we'd like to not have to rely on the CSM, and simply output QT w/streamers via firewire. That would be best. Then we could take advantage of DP's the newly implemented film scoring add-ons.

Craig

[Phil Jeffers]

I'm about to fill my last PCI slot too! G5's should have more... I'm too afraid to check expansion chassis prices!

P.S. The Fuse-X will feed any QT launched out via its interceptor technology. It even opens plug-in pictures which totally freaked me out the other day when selecting a TL Reverb room... the room popped up on my monitor!!! Great little card.