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  #141  
Old 09-20-2005, 09:43 AM
Ben B Ben B is offline
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Default Re: PRO TOOLS HD 7 DEBUTS OCTOBER 7TH

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Just record the DSP to another track and Inactivate and hide original track.
You would prefer to do that per track than freeze? One pass per track. With Freeze you get to do multiples automatically, simultaneously (hopefully) no deactivating, no hiding.


It wouldn't surprise me if doing the bounce in real time would actually go faster than the freeze/file-based conversion, if you have a stack of 5 inserts running. I do this occasionally, and it's definitely faster than Audiosuiting a track one plug-in at a time. Even with a Freeze function, I would expect it to take a comparible amount of time, since the same number-crunching and file rendering would be needed (if I understand "freeze" implementation correctly). A real-time bounce only takes as long as the program material, and you can also retain your plug-in automation, and the reported TDM "sound quality" over the file-based equivalents.

Ben B
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  #142  
Old 09-20-2005, 10:49 AM
snoopy snoopy is offline
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Default Re: PRO TOOLS HD 7 DEBUTS OCTOBER 7TH

I don't forsee freese ability on TDM plugins ever, but it would be essential for heavy DSP plugins that cannot use TDM, such as soft synths. Computers are jut not fast enough yet to handle even medium productions. Heck, it'shard to run a single instance of Ivory on a G5, let alone a whole arrangement.
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  #143  
Old 09-20-2005, 11:26 AM
Ducky Ducky is offline
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Default Re: PRO TOOLS HD 7 DEBUTS OCTOBER 7TH

Doesn't TDM have a 'duplicate track' option in FILE?
Simply Print the automated multiplug'd track and put the output file on the duplicated track and disable the voice of the original. Now you can make a change reasonably quick and print a new file for your duplicate track. Of course, delete all the automation and plugins, routing, and such. Actually, you don't even need to duplicate the track, just make another named the same with 'freeze' added to it. Okay, so it's a real time process... but it beats printing each plugin individually to an existing track that would be nearly impossible to recover if you needed a small change. Not to mension the disk space required!
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  #144  
Old 09-20-2005, 04:17 PM
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AINSLIE AINSLIE is offline
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Default Re: PRO TOOLS HD 7 DEBUTS OCTOBER 7TH

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I don't forsee freese ability on TDM plugins ever, but it would be essential for heavy DSP plugins that cannot use TDM, such as soft synths. Computers are jut not fast enough yet to handle even medium productions. Heck, it'shard to run a single instance of Ivory on a G5, let alone a whole arrangement.
I think this is my main irritation and reason to be involved in this thread. The dream of everything being in one box is not possible without instrument freeze on a Mac in PT. IMHO.

I am actually about to launch into a dedicated Giga computer as an external module. Sigh ... now I need to save multiple files in multiple places and launch multiple files in order to recall / rebuild a session. I have seen the suggestion of having multiple (i.e. more than two - many) computers - I am seeing myself fast approach that point - Ivory being a case in point. And the data management systems, memory, backup, brain tax etc .... all detracting from the creative process concerns me ... although i guess I did it in the old world with a rack full of modules, a tape machine(s) in sync ...

I still advocate freeze - even just INST freeze as the best non realtime workaround feature addition Digidesign could grant to bring the dream closer.

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  #145  
Old 09-21-2005, 09:36 AM
Ben B Ben B is offline
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Default Re: PRO TOOLS HD 7 DEBUTS OCTOBER 7TH

Quote:
Doesn't TDM have a 'duplicate track' option in FILE?
Simply Print the automated multiplug'd track and put the output file on the duplicated track and disable the voice of the original. Now you can make a change reasonably quick and print a new file for your duplicate track. Of course, delete all the automation and plugins, routing, and such. Actually, you don't even need to duplicate the track, just make another named the same with 'freeze' added to it. Okay, so it's a real time process... but it beats printing each plugin individually to an existing track that would be nearly impossible to recover if you needed a small change. Not to mension the disk space required!
Hi:

Duplicate Track does not render anything to disk. It just creates a new audio track, with the same plug-ins instantiated, using the same unprocessed soundfile.

Ben B.
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  #146  
Old 09-21-2005, 09:37 AM
Ben B Ben B is offline
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Default Re: PRO TOOLS HD 7 DEBUTS OCTOBER 7TH

Actually, I just re-read your post. You reached the right conclusion yourself -- just make a new empty track, and do the bounce.

Sorry for misreading,
Ben B
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  #147  
Old 09-21-2005, 11:18 AM
ajs ajs is offline
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Default Re: PRO TOOLS HD 7 DEBUTS OCTOBER 7TH

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Just record the DSP to another track and Inactivate and hide original track.
Easier said than done. If I added it up, I would bet that this process has wasted DAYS of my life. I posted this before to make this point but I am doing it again because I so desperately want a Freeze function... not to free up DSP but to be able to more easily collaborate with others who don't have EVERY sample library, sampler, plug-in, external hardware processor, etc, etc, that I have. The time savings of real-time bounce vs. faster-than-real-time bounce (step 15) is negligible compared to how long this whole ridiculous process takes. See how long it takes you to do this across a dozen tracks. Then do it a few times a day.

22 Steps to Freeze:

1. Save As to a new session name (needed so you can recover original automation)
2. Show all tracks that are to be frozen {"source tracks") and select
3. Deactivate all inserts, excluding those to be frozen (eg, Mach5, AmpFarm)
4. Make sure fader and pan automation has been written on all source tracks (or you'll lose the settings)
5. Suspend all automation on all source tracks ("auto off" position)
6. Reset all faders to zero on source tracks
7. Reset all pan to center for mono source tracks or L/R for stereo source tracks (must manually move pans on each stereo track full left or right since ctrl-cmd-click sets it to center)
8. Create bus (stereo or mono) for each source track
9. Create new destination track (stereo or mono) for each source track, name tracks, and set inputs for each to corresponding bus (use option-shift-cmd-click! once for stereo, once for mono tracks if they are adjacent)
10. Route output of each source track to corresponding bus (again, option-shift-cmd-click)
11. Record enable destination tracks
12. Since send levels could be blasting after faders are reset, be sure to mute all sends, especially any external hardware sends!
13. Mute all outputs of destination tracks (important if there are any hardware inserts downstream)
14. Disable ADC
15. Do the bounce: select range to bounce and record to all destination tracks
16. Enable ADC
17. Unmute all sends
18. Strip silence and compact frozen audio regions
19. Move frozen audio back to source tracks, re-enable inserts, set automation to Auto Read, reassign Ouputs to original outputs, and deactivate frozen inserts (eg, Mach5, AmpFarm)
20. Import (from original session) pan and other automation lost as a result of re-assigning mono track to mono bus and re-assigning mono tracks with mono-to-stereo inserts
21. Remove busses created for the freeze process
22. Delete destination tracks (since audio has been moved back to source tracks)

oh, and step 23, pray that you don't ever change any MIDI parts so that you don't have to go through this all over again.

When you have to do this after a long working session late at night, this is a particularly disturbing process. If you make one mistake, you have to start all over again.
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  #148  
Old 09-21-2005, 12:39 PM
Philthy Philthy is offline
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Default Re: PRO TOOLS HD 7 DEBUTS OCTOBER 7TH

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Just remember the TDM path cannot run faster than 1:1.
So freezing will be simply automated process of the things mentioned above with a nicer GUI representation.

But it'll still be 1:1.
Thus my point about audiosuite, which everyone and their brother seemed to misunderstand. Obviously the plugs would all need basically "audiosuite" versions written, since these are basically faster than realtime versions.

I never had much trouble with them sounding different than the TDM ones, but I'll believe anything. Obviously it would be difficult since all plugins would need a faster than realtime version.
I have 5 plugins sitting on the vocal .. should I copy the settings of each plug, then print each, disable each plugin and lose all plugin automation? The Audiosuite freeze aint gonna cut it. Has to be a 1:1 pass if TDM.

Ainslie
You say that it would need to be RTAS or TDM, imagining that they would be upgraded to provide this functionality, yet at the same time you insist on understanding Audiosuite exactly as it exists, without the possibility of being upgraded.

Obviously the idea we are talking about here is a faster than realtime, one-shot freeze. My use of Audiosuite as an example is simply because it is coded to run faster than realtime, while RTAS and TDM are not.

Does anyone know if the DP freeze or Logic freeze take automation into account?

Anyway, this is all a pipedream.
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  #149  
Old 09-22-2005, 12:53 AM
snoopy snoopy is offline
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Default Re: PRO TOOLS HD 7 DEBUTS OCTOBER 7TH

What bothers me is that there is only a 1 month grace periods for free upgrades. That's a bit unfair. I just bought a system less than a month ago and I am going to have to pay for the first software upgrade. Most companies give at least 3 months, but 1?? Come on, how cheap can you get?
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  #150  
Old 09-22-2005, 01:25 AM
Niels B Niels B is offline
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Default Re: PRO TOOLS HD 7 DEBUTS OCTOBER 7TH

Will there be a new version of MasterList included in Protools 7?

Cheers, Niels
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