MIDI CC - True of False

[eitw]

Hi guys,

New to the forum and just getting into PT after a long lackluster relationship with Logic.

I have searched through the posts and spent an entire evening trying to understand how PT works with MIDI controllers and believe I have it figured out for the most part. I would appreciate it if one of you more experienced users could clarify the following statements and validate whether they are true or not.


1 - The ‘MIDI Learn’ feature that assigns CC data to your physical controller knobs/sliders only works with Software Instruments but not with Plug-Ins.

2 - There is no way to assign CC data of Plug-In parameters to be controlled by a third-party MIDI controller, you have to either edit with the mouse or purchase an Avid controller.

3 - You need to initialize a MIDI controller in the Setup/Peripherals/MIDIControllers window if: it has the ability to use and you want it to use Transport Control functionality.

4 - You need to initialize a MIDI controller in the Setup/MIDI/InputDevices window if: it is intended to communicate using CC messages without Transport Control functionality.



Hopefully I got most of this right. Look forward to the feedback.

Thank you for your time and expertise.

[nst7]

The first two points are false. Don't know about the other two. Midi controllers work fine with plugins, including midi learn.

[Sardi]

Originally Posted by nst7

The first two points are false. Don't know about the other two. Midi controllers work fine with plugins, including midi learn.

Yes & no.

Technically false, but at the same time, the majority of the plugins out there (at least the ones I use) don't support MIDI CC mapping of parameters.

The included PT plugins definitely don't.

[eitw]

nst7...

So you are saying that right clicking on the Plug-In parameter (ex: D-Verb) will give you the pop-up menu with 'Learn MIDI CC' option?

I do not see this pop-up window for any of the plug-ins, whether they be Avid or 3rd Party.

[eitw]

Sardi...

Thank you for your input. I believe your statement is a more accurate explanation since I cannot map MIDI CC for any of the plugins I have tried. (Avid, Lexicon, Slate Digital, Sound Toys, Native Instruments, UAD)

[Sardi]

Originally Posted by eitw

Sardi...

Thank you for your input. I believe your statement is a more accurate explanation since I cannot map MIDI CC for any of the plugins I have tried. (Avid, Lexicon, Slate Digital, Sound Toys, Native Instruments, UAD)

Off the top of my head, the plugins that I use that have a learn MIDI CC function are FXPansion Etch, all the Blue Cat stuff, all the Sugar Bytes stuff and from memory, the NI stuff as well. I have K9 Ultimate, but perhaps I'm recalling the soft synths having that functionality as opposed to the effect plugins.

But yes, you can't use MIDI to control the inbuilt PT plugins. I also own FG-X, but have never tried to automate it with a controller.

[eitw]

Yeah, I also have NI K9 Ultimate. The instruments work with MIDI CC but the plug-ins do not.

So in order to leave no rock unturned, would it be accurate to assume everyone is just automating the majority of plug-ins with their mouse or the pencil tool then?

[Sardi]

Originally Posted by eitw

Yeah, I also have NI K9 Ultimate. The instruments work with MIDI CC but the plug-ins do not.

Yeah, I think that is indeed the case.

So in order to leave no rock unturned, would it be accurate to assume everyone is just automating the majority of plug-ins with their mouse or the pencil tool then?

For me, it's the latter. TBH, even when I can learn MIDI CC, I still automate with the pencil tool. I find it more accurate. Where I like to use learn MIDI CC, is to map a parameter such as filter cutoff, and play with it in realtime as I'me experimenting, more to get an idea of what I may like to do with the automation. Once I'm happy, I draw it in.

I've always worked like that, even going back to my hardware days.

[eitw]

Originally Posted by eitw

3 - You need to initialize a MIDI controller in the Setup/Peripherals/MIDIControllers window if: it has the ability to use and you want it to use Transport Control functionality.

4 - You need to initialize a MIDI controller in the Setup/MIDI/InputDevices window if: it is intended to communicate using CC messages without Transport Control functionality.

Can any of you PT guru's out there confirm the accuracy of these two statements?


Thanks again for the input guys!

[nst7]

To clarify a few things, and go back to the original question:

Yes, Protools supports midi learn with any midi controller, regardless of brand, and you can record your moves as well, using it as automation.

And yes, it works for both virtual instruments, and for plugins, both Avid and 3rd party.

The catch is that it must be implemented into the plugin or VI. In most cases, they will implement it in the plugin if they feel that it will be used in that fashion. Most notably amp simulators are the best candidates.

For that reason, virtually all amp sims have midi learn, including Avid's Eleven, both free and full version. I have just tested it on that, and on Guitar Rig 5, Amplitube 3, Waves GTR 3, and Pod Farm 2, and it works fine in all of them.

Also, it works in every single built in Avid Virtual Instrument that comes with Protools, including Xpand 2, Boom, Mini Grand, Vacuum, DB33, and even Structure Free.

For 3rd party plugins, I don't have every plugin at my disposal, but it works in all the Fabfilter plugins, and FXpansion's Singlemault SE and Dcam. Again, it will come down to if the manufacturer enables it in the plugin. For Waves, according to the manuals, Metafilter and Element both have it. This makes sense in terms of how they would be used, vs. other plugins like EQ's and compressors where it wouldn't be a big deal. There are probably others out there as well.

But I just wanted to clear up the idea that Protools somehow does not support it or that none of their plugins have it, because they do.

For plugins, it usually involves creating a separate midi track and assigning its output to that particular plugin for it to work, and for it to show the option of midi learn (which usually is shown by right-clicking the particular knob, but some plugins are a little different). In most cases with instruments, the instrument track it's placed on facilitate the options.