Scrub Wheel Again!

[Chris Lambrechts]

You're not alone Jules ....

Stan ?????

[Jules]

[img]images/icons/frown.gif[/img]

[Stan Cotey]

Trim/Scrub is on the master list of features to be implemented. Digidesign has a policy of not giving out specific dates for new features so I can't tell you when to expect it.

I know that this is frustrating for you and I also know that Gannon promised you this feature. I can tell you that we are working on it. While I can appreciate that Trim/Scrub is very important to you all, you are a vocal but small group. We haven't heard requests for this feature outside of this DUC gathering. It doesn't change the importance of the feature, but it does help give it a priority.

We have to prioritize the feature set so that we add the most desired features for the largest number of users first. As an example, we have recently added fully integrated surround mixing, a vastly improved MIDI implementation and Beat Detective.

Thanks for your continued patience. If I hear anything noteworthy, I'll pass it along.

Stan Cotey

[Tweakhead]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:<HR>Originally posted by Stan Cotey:

I know that this is frustrating for you and I also know that Gannon promised you this feature. I can tell you that we are working on it. While I can appreciate that Trim/Scrub is very important to you all, you are a vocal but small group. We haven't heard requests for this feature outside of this DUC gathering. It doesn't change the importance of the feature, but it does help give it a priority.

Stan Cotey<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
I rarely trample on the statements of respected Digi Administrators but this is the biggest load of nonsense that I have ever read.

You make it appear that an incredibly important feature is based on a “voting system”.

This feature has been a sore point with us ProControl users for a long time. I did not spend $20,000 on my control surface to be told that I need more votes to get the kind of features that should have been part of it from the beginning.

Where else do you expect to hear opinions on this matter? This IS the forum for feedback.

[Chris Lambrechts]

quote Stan :
.... While I can appreciate that Trim/Scrub is very important to you all, you are a vocal but small group. We haven't heard requests for this feature outside of this DUC gathering .....

end quote


Stan ....... sigh ...... forget it .... your reply isn't worth more than the 35 seconds I spent typing this one ...; so I'll just forgive you and act like I didn't even read it .... I just hope that digi pays you well to waste your time on this small very unimportant groutp of users .... [img]images/icons/rolleyes.gif[/img] [img]images/icons/rolleyes.gif[/img]

Digi , the remaining of my 35 seconds I adress to you .... please give us Gannon back ... at least he gave us the impression being listened to ....

[michael c]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:<HR>Originally posted by Stan Cotey:

We have to prioritize the feature set so that we add the most desired features for the largest number of users first. As an example, we have recently added fully integrated surround mixing, a vastly improved MIDI implementation and Beat Detective.
Stan Cotey<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Stan, so does this mean that there is not a 'team' that works on ProControl, but everyone in the Tech dept. just works on software only? You might want to suggest to Digi to hire a guy to work on the hardware aspects of ProControl. Now that PC has been out for a few years, it would be nice if the original features that were advertised would work properly. Not asking for the moon here...............
Thanks.

[InSights7]

"We haven't heard requests for this feature outside of this DUC gathering."

I want it too! [img]images/icons/wink.gif[/img]

[PlanB]

Stan,
As for your comment that only some guys here on the DUC mentioned the scrub wheel thing, this is not true.
I know several others mentioned it outside the DUC, in fact I did ask for it when I was at Digidesign in Pinewood Studios/London last month.
You have to understand that this kind of statement is considered as being quite offensive, especially to some guys here on the DUC that always gave nice feedback, constructive tips and defended Digi and the PC.
I appreciate you being new to the job, and I know you have lots of things to take care of, but to be honest, I don't understand such a reaction... Had a bad day?

Cheers
Arthur

[Stan Cotey]

Well, I’m trying the best I can! I guess when you’re new, there is bound to be some amount of verbal blundering... Please understand that I'm up here to listen to your feedback, and hopefully to be able to deliver on some of your requests as well. ;-)

I'll try to respond to a few of the issues that have been brought up in the last few posts as best as I can:
- First, I wasn't implying that there is a system that requires individual "votes" from users (here on the DUC or anywhere else) to determine whether (and when) we implement a given feature. All I was saying was that there are many features that many, many people ask for, and this particular feature has not been one that a very large number of people have requested. We have a user-base that literally has many thousands of people (including a couple of thousand ProControl customers). Please realize that we do try to balance requests as they arrive against our internal resources and the need to support new HW and SW products as well.

- While of course we have a team of people working on OSX, plenty of internal feature development continues within Pro Tools. But as you all probably are aware, we don't put out releases every few months. All of the stuff that's in the pipeline could be a months away. It's one of the reasons we don't pre-announce the feature sets or the delivery dates of any given release...

- Some of you may remember the very early notes that Gannon sent out on the Trim feature... Implementing this features *does not* take just a couple of days... and that's why it hasn't been done up until this point. It actually was estimated at *several weeks* of work. Several weeks of development time is considered a *very large* amount of time, and also translates into a couple additional days to weeks of debug and test time. This is because the code in Pro Tools and DAE that handles scrubbing locks out other activity, and there would have to be pretty extensive coding done to support the ability to update the waveform on the screen while scrub is occurring. (You guys should be familiar with this special "scrub lock out" behavior... when scrub or shuttle mode is enabled on ProControl or the PT GUI, all other activity is disabled other than the cursor's position on screen.)

- Even though this takes a long time to implement, we'll be looking at getting it into our next major feature release, but it does and will contend with other features (including other ProControl and mixing-related features). But hopefully, we can do it this time around.

- I (and the entire development team here) are very interested in what you have say. We've definitely gotten your message loud and clear about your wanting Trim Scrub. Please don't feel that because it is taking a while that it means we're not listening. Just some examples: features like touch sensitive editing of PI parameters using the faders got into v5.1. Also, other v5.1 mix related functions were added like surround mixing, I/O setup management, active/inactive tracks, and multiple Plug-In windows being supported (asked for by a lot of people).

In addition to dealing with today's feature set, an important part of my job is directing the future of control surface development at Digidesign. So if there’s something you want to see, I'd sure like to know about it. I gather input by reading the DUC, talking with various users, working with other Digi product managers and the engineers, and of course from my own experiences recording and mixing. I came to Digidesign from my former gigs doing SW/HW engineering and product management at Harrison and AMS/Neve, and I hope that my experience there will help out future ProControl feature development.

[John McDaniel]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:<HR> Well, I’m trying the best I can! I guess when you’re new, there is bound to be some amount of verbal blundering... Please understand that I'm up here to listen to your feedback, and hopefully to be able to deliver on some of your requests as well. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Accpeted.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:<HR> Implementing this features *does not* take just a couple of days... and that's why it hasn't been done up until this point. It actually was estimated at *several weeks* of work.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Just a point of order: I think that we are approaching measuring the length of time this has been requested in YEARS.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:<HR>...the code in Pro Tools and DAE that handles scrubbing locks out other activity, [snip] (You guys should be familiar with this special "scrub lock out" behavior... when scrub or shuttle mode is enabled on ProControl or the PT GUI, all other activity is disabled other than the cursor's position on screen. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yes, and it's a big drag. No zoom capability. I could easily live with no zoom WHILE scrubbing, ie; stop scrub; then zoom; then scrub, but as it is, you have to get out of scrub mode and re-enter --VERY cumbersome.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:<HR> Just some examples: features like touch sensitive editing of PI parameters using the faders got into v5.1. Also, other v5.1 mix related functions were added like surround mixing, I/O setup management, active/inactive tracks, and multiple Plug-In windows being supported (asked for by a lot of people). <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

All great stuff that I'm VERY HAPPY about. Another point of order though: multiple plug-in windows has been begged for for at least 4 or 5 years now. Sequencing apps using Digi TDM hardware were doing it way back in the 20th century; that's why so many ProTools users made such a stink about it. Multiple undo was on the table for at least 6 years. Some of us here have seen how long it can take for features to appear (still got all of my program disks going back to Pro Deck v1.1x).

Good luck. Fight the good fight. And remember that we are Pro Tools enthusiasts. As users AND supporters, we want the products to be as good as they can be.

regards,
j mcd