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  #11  
Old 10-28-2011, 01:25 PM
MTStudios MTStudios is offline
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Default Re: Why do we have to pay Avid to stop being mediocre?

I just bought 9hd in July, so I don't qualify for a free update.
I have owned 9 for 3 months and they want another $999.00 from me to stay current.. Extremely GREEDY Avid. And by the way your sales reps in so. cal don't return phone calls or emails.

Here is what I have given Avid in a years time.

Oct 2010 $3750 for HD Crossgrade
July 2011 $400 for Pro Tools 9
August 2011 $450 for Heat
Now $999 for Pro Tools 10

Pro Tools 8 was outdated two months after I bought it
Pro Tools 9 is outdated three months after I bought it

Please!!!!

Are you gonna start charging for the air I breathe?
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  #12  
Old 10-28-2011, 01:57 PM
pfo pfo is offline
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Default Re: Why do we have to pay Avid to stop being mediocre?

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheNoize View Post
Dear Avid corporate team, you don't deserve your jobs, and you surely don't deserve your paychecks. I would single handedly and easily take your CEOs job and run your company better. And I'm 28 years old. That's how pathetic you are.
Yeah, Avid! And my dad can beat up your dad! So, busted!

You, sir, have "CEO" written all over!

I'm sorry, I'm not suggesting you should just bend over and take it. The pricing structure is a bit outrageous -- especially PTHD 7 to PTHD 10, which is absolute madness at $2500 (seriously, who is going to take that "deal?")

But are you sure the classic "hot-headed internet forum rant" is the most effective approach to get what you're looking for? You may not realize this, but "angry typing" has the effect of lowering the credibility of your statements. It disguises what may be a completely valid concern as a childish temper tantrum.

Here's another option more in line with the not-at-all-bananas statement you've made above: How about you put your money where your mouth is? If it would be so easy for you, why don't you start your own DAW company, hire yourself as the CEO and do a better job?

Here, I've even taken the first step for you!
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  #13  
Old 10-28-2011, 02:09 PM
TheNoize TheNoize is offline
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Default Re: Why do we have to pay Avid to stop being mediocre?

Quote:
Originally Posted by pfo View Post
Yeah, Avid! And my dad can beat up your dad! So, busted!

You, sir, have "CEO" written all over!

I'm sorry, I'm not suggesting you should just bend over and take it. The pricing structure is a bit outrageous -- especially PTHD 7 to PTHD 10, which is absolute madness at $2500 (seriously, who is going to take that "deal?")

But are you sure the classic "hot-headed internet forum rant" is the most effective approach to get what you're looking for? You may not realize this, but "angry typing" has the effect of lowering the credibility of your statements. It disguises what may be a completely valid concern as a childish temper tantrum.

Here's another option more in line with the not-at-all-bananas statement you've made above: How about you put your money where your mouth is? If it would be so easy for you, why don't you start your own DAW company, hire yourself as the CEO and do a better job?

Here, I've even taken the first step for you!
I completely agree, but sometimes it's hard not to be angry! And CEOs usually only get praised inside the company, because subordinate employees are afraid of getting fired - and this is a great place to shout a rant, so at least he knows someone out there thinks he's a terrible CEO. He probably won't even read it (they're so out of touch with their own market, it's pathetic).

Thanks for the link, I was actually looking for a .gov with help on starting a business :)
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  #14  
Old 10-28-2011, 02:32 PM
de_flon de_flon is offline
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Talking Re: Why do we have to pay Avid to stop being mediocre?

Hey!

Do exactly like this for best pro tools experience! Downgrade your Mac os from lion to snow leopard (if you already installed lion of course) REMEMBER to update your eleven racks firmware before downgrading (if you got one of course) otherwise you won't be able to!!

Install pro tools 9 and then upgrade to 9.0.3. Don't get fooled by the automatic updater from AVID. If you follow the updater you'll get stuck on 9.0.5 again.

I did these "not so funny stepsl" but I forgot my eleven rack!

I have tried every workaround and stuff people has told me here on D.U.C but with no luck! I'm still stuck at the older buggy firmware! The only way I can fix this is to call their customer support in USA. And this is something I just can't do!

So now I'm stuck with an older release of Mac Os and a buggy eleven rack and a buggy release of pro tools called 9.0.3. (but hey it is better than 9.0.5 though)

I just keep asking myself: what has happened here???

When I was younger I learned that I had to eat one sandwich before I could get another one.

Set your compressor to pump on the word BEFORE!

You get it? Do you Avid? Do you all get it? Are you sure you get it?
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Reason 5

(still waiting for something better than 9.0.5 Beta)
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  #15  
Old 10-28-2011, 02:34 PM
pfo pfo is offline
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Default Re: Why do we have to pay Avid to stop being mediocre?

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheNoize View Post
I completely agree, but sometimes it's hard not to be angry! Thanks for the link, I was actually looking for a .gov with help on starting a business :)
Can't disagree with you there! I think we're all a little confused with Avid's management decisions lately. I honestly can't imagine how the $2500 software upgrade price made it past the "wouldn't it be crazy if we..." stage.

Here's my (admittedly uneducated and probably wildly inaccurate) theory:

Pro Tools was solely pro product that was unfortunately based around aging TDM technology. That the TDM chips would eventually become obsolete was just an unfortunate reality of digital technology.

Avid realized they would need to update that technology someday, and that there was no realistic way to do it without either bankrupting the company or losing a huge portion of the market share.

So ten years ago, they hatched a plan to subsidize the cost of that shift by launching cheaper, more limited versions of the software and marketing it to young, hip songwriting types. The huge increase in user base would have the effect of sustaining the product and brand name through what would otherwise be a devastating shift. But the flipside is that it also devalued the brand (remember PT systems being sold at Toys r Us?).

That was a nasty side effect of the plan, but necessary for it to work. And now, they're weeding back out the casual home user in an effort to restore the exclusivity of the brand. Upgrade too expensive for your budget? Take your cool hair and skullcandy headphones over to Cubase or Reaper. Pro Tools is for professionals, dude.

As I said, it's a crackpot theory that I dreamt up about 20 minutes ago, and I have zero knowledge of management so it's likely full of holes. But I can't imagine they really think anybody who has chosen not to upgrade since version 7 would now just be cool with paying $2500 to get current.
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  #16  
Old 10-28-2011, 02:53 PM
The Dougfather The Dougfather is offline
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Default Re: Why do we have to pay Avid to stop being mediocre?

Quote:
Can't disagree with you there! I think we're all a little confused with Avid's management decisions lately. I honestly can't imagine how the $2500 software upgrade price made it past the "wouldn't it be crazy if we..." stage.
IMHO this is an intentional double edged sword for the HD users.

1) You either pay $1000 -$2500 now and upgrade software only.
2) You crossgrade to HDX and you get 10 free.

If you have any intention of upgrading to HDX whatsoever then buying the upgrade is pointless unless of course you need the new features right away. HDX comes with the software inlcuded so you will essentially be buying it twice with no way of recovering the shortfall.

In another thread Max from Avid is encouraging users to take out the support contract at $599 which includes the HD update FOC, support for TDM system?????????????

Which ever way you cut it, if you go to 10 now before going to HDX it's gonna cost.
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  #17  
Old 10-28-2011, 03:02 PM
TheNoize TheNoize is offline
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Default Re: Why do we have to pay Avid to stop being mediocre?

Quote:
Originally Posted by pfo View Post
Can't disagree with you there! I think we're all a little confused with Avid's management decisions lately. I honestly can't imagine how the $2500 software upgrade price made it past the "wouldn't it be crazy if we..." stage.

Here's my (admittedly uneducated and probably wildly inaccurate) theory:

Pro Tools was solely pro product that was unfortunately based around aging TDM technology. That the TDM chips would eventually become obsolete was just an unfortunate reality of digital technology.

Avid realized they would need to update that technology someday, and that there was no realistic way to do it without either bankrupting the company or losing a huge portion of the market share.

So ten years ago, they hatched a plan to subsidize the cost of that shift by launching cheaper, more limited versions of the software and marketing it to young, hip songwriting types. The huge increase in user base would have the effect of sustaining the product and brand name through what would otherwise be a devastating shift. But the flipside is that it also devalued the brand (remember PT systems being sold at Toys r Us?).

That was a nasty side effect of the plan, but necessary for it to work. And now, they're weeding back out the casual home user in an effort to restore the exclusivity of the brand. Upgrade too expensive for your budget? Take your cool hair and skullcandy headphones over to Cubase or Reaper. Pro Tools is for professionals, dude.

As I said, it's a crackpot theory that I dreamt up about 20 minutes ago, and I have zero knowledge of management so it's likely full of holes. But I can't imagine they really think anybody who has chosen not to upgrade since version 7 would now just be cool with paying $2500 to get current.
It makes sense. If they actually thought of it like that, they forgot one small thing: in 2011, DAWs aren't a luxury anymore. And industry standards are now decided by free market - access to the best value product.

If they wanted to stick with the TDM/non-native philosophy (which is flawed, and there's a reason why other DAWs aren't doing that), they should have started lowering the prices of HD way earlier, so they could get more people on the HD wagon before they created HDX. This way, they kept HD exclusive and made more profit (an HD card nowadays probably costs no more than $50 to manufacture, due to the old age of the technology) - but, for the most part, recording studios own the bulk of them. Recording studios that are closing down, and will keep closing down, because of the industry's downfall (and inevitable transition into cheaper home studios with all the amenities of big recording studios, now In The Box.).

They are still worrying about a dying market, instead of planning their brand for a future where every musician uses a DAW, and collective music work is done through networking between them.
The only appeal of big studios today is the vintage rack gear they can offer - and even that, with better computer processing and better audio software, will become obsolete very soon. Most independent artists are now using very limited rack gear in their home studios, and their album production skills have improved ten fold in the last decade, because of easy access to DAW software and plugins.

We're all audio professionals, but we can't be in denial. Recording studios are going the way of the Kodak development centers. Pultecs and Distressors are going the way of the vinyl records and the tape machine, in the next decades of audio technology. I'm not Nostradamus, I just have common sense, which a lot of audio engineers don't seem to have. Native, in-the-box "studios" are the obvious future. Apple made more money selling Mac Pros/MacBook Pros to musicians and engineers who want to stay in-the-box, than Avid does selling their overpriced HD products. it's been pretty obvious since the 80s that computers and information flow were going to change everything, market wise. Avid/Digidesign is still in denial of that. They lack vision, and they lack smarts to run a company with so much technology. They are tape editors trying to make sense of a microchip. Out of touch oldies who lost sense of how much software (and software updates) should cost.

PS: Call me crazy, but I can't help but think they've been listening to my free business advice on this forum for the last 6-7 years, and the company has changed accordingly. Ironically, they get it wrong. Because they suck at it.
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  #18  
Old 10-28-2011, 03:17 PM
SDDP SDDP is offline
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Default Re: Why do we have to pay Avid to stop being mediocre?

Quote:
Originally Posted by MTStudios View Post
Are you gonna start charging for the air I breathe?
FYI, Native air is free to breath, but if you want the HD air, that will cost you lol

Sorry, I couldnt' resist :)
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  #19  
Old 10-28-2011, 05:13 PM
pfo pfo is offline
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Location: Nashville, TN
Posts: 381
Default Re: Why do we have to pay Avid to stop being mediocre?

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Dougfather View Post
IMHO this is an intentional double edged sword for the HD users.

1) You either pay $1000 -$2500 now and upgrade software only.
2) You crossgrade to HDX and you get 10 free.

If you have any intention of upgrading to HDX whatsoever then buying the upgrade is pointless unless of course you need the new features right away. HDX comes with the software inlcuded so you will essentially be buying it twice with no way of recovering the shortfall.

In another thread Max from Avid is encouraging users to take out the support contract at $599 which includes the HD update FOC, support for TDM system?????????????

Which ever way you cut it, if you go to 10 now before going to HDX it's gonna cost.
Yeah, I agree. That's the other side of the (totally theoretical) nefarious plot that I failed to mention -- seems like the extreme prices are designed to encourage serious professional HD users to go ahead and upgrade to HDX while encouraging casual HD users to abandon Pro Tools entirely.

BUT -- here's another way to look at HD10 with TDM hardware:

Assuming they really do continue developing it until it's super rock-solid, PT HD10 will become "vintage" Pro Tools. In three or four years, when these forums are in a frenzy over whether AAX plugins sound better in DSP or native mode, and do they even sound as good as RTAS or TDM, and why aren't the new converters as good as the "classic" ones in the original 192s, and is it all a big conspiracy to take our money......those of us who kept our old hardware and stopped upgrading at version 10 will be the ONLY folks with access to the "warm," "creamy," vintage sound of TDM chips and RTAS algorithms. People will talk wistfully about how "HD10 was the last great version of Pro Tools."

That's worth $599, isn't it?
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  #20  
Old 10-28-2011, 05:35 PM
TheNoize TheNoize is offline
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Default Re: Why do we have to pay Avid to stop being mediocre?

Quote:
Originally Posted by pfo View Post
Yeah, I agree. That's the other side of the (totally theoretical) nefarious plot that I failed to mention -- seems like the extreme prices are designed to encourage serious professional HD users to go ahead and upgrade to HDX while encouraging casual HD users to abandon Pro Tools entirely.

BUT -- here's another way to look at HD10 with TDM hardware:

Assuming they really do continue developing it until it's super rock-solid, PT HD10 will become "vintage" Pro Tools. In three or four years, when these forums are in a frenzy over whether AAX plugins sound better in DSP or native mode, and do they even sound as good as RTAS or TDM, and why aren't the new converters as good as the "classic" ones in the original 192s, and is it all a big conspiracy to take our money......those of us who kept our old hardware and stopped upgrading at version 10 will be the ONLY folks with access to the "warm," "creamy," vintage sound of TDM chips and RTAS algorithms. People will talk wistfully about how "HD10 was the last great version of Pro Tools."

That's worth $599, isn't it?
Digital systems don't really work that way. Digital needs software to run, so it works like software. The future isn't digital - it's software. Easily updated, fast, and in the box.

Charging premium prices to update a digital system shows a complete lack of knowledge about technology in the 21st century.

- When you buy an analog box, that's a lifetime purchase. No one will need to "update" a hardware EQ or compressor, so you pay for gear that will always be reliable and working the same way.
- When you buy a digital system, you are usually granted at least a couple years (probably lifetime) of firmware updates.
- When you buy software, you are usually granted at least a couple years of software updates.

Bot not with Avid! here, you're on your own. Bought Pro Tools 9 last month? Tough luck, sucker!
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