QT Video Playback Delay, Seriously?

[Marco Bernardo]

Hi,

This is our setup with PT versions that use AVE instead of QT and all my tests and conclusions (PT HD 12.3.x,PT HD 12.4.x, PT HD 12.5.x)

- We ALWAYS use (for work reference) DNxHD 36 1080i@50 with MXF container (they are exported from Media Composer)

- We use BlackMagic cards (Decklink SDI 4K and Intensity Extreme Thunderbolt) , all of my test come down to this ones (budget related), that the cards that REF in are the best ones for the money (BM), we have a Rosendahl nano syncs HD gen lock all of our rooms.

- 5 Rooms have SYNC HD that receive the gen lock and then video ref out to the BlackMagics

- 5 rooms don't use SYNC HD, they receive the gen lock directly to the REF In of the BM cards (in this case they are all Intensity Extreme Thunderbolt , it shouldn't work but... )

- I've tested all the BM drivers, I get best performance with 10.4.1, there's a info that 9.9.3 is the best one (but this 9.9.3 is only needed to get the OpenIO_Blackmagic.acf file, then you can update to the new ones and replace the new file with the 9.9.3, it's hard to get that driver, it have disappeared from black magic support downloads)

- If possible use fast HDD/SSD to read the video files, slow drives make AVE to stop working more, H264 is not a optimised file to work with PT, DNxHD and Apple Pro res are optimised with MXF or MOV containers. (by the way I've tested with DNxHD 185x 1080i50 files too (no problems too, but that is only for the final stage of the project)

- AJA as the best hardware, but the price is quite high (I never tested, but I can say I trust PTE team for the great reviews and duc members)

- I tested the BM monitor, is quite good for the money and workstations that are always play/stop (edit rooms, SFx), the first 10 seconds the sync IS a mess, but then for 10 minutes it stays quite lock to the picture, then it start to drift more or less 1 frame for each 10 minutes in continuous playback.

- Video from your Display is quick funny to measure, is like a drunk ballet dancer it's never ever synced.

- We've tested all delays related with our TV display that we use to monitor our content (that measure goes down to video sync offset).

I think I'm not forgetting anything more that I tested.

I hope it helps my 3 months tests (between work, that's why it have taken so long to test)

Regards,
Marco

[mgoorevich]

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B7m...ew?usp=sharing
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B7m...ew?usp=sharing
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B7m...ew?usp=sharing

Agree! Desktop video must be compared only to desktop video.
Here are some test I made with PT10, PT11 DeskTop, PT11 Aja LHi.

I don't see much difference in delay between PT11 desktop video and Hardware enabled (Aja LHi).

Taking in account the AVE advantages I can live with this tiny delay in PT 11 up.

The Video Engine Errors however drive me nuts.

[Marco Bernardo]

I never have video errors, most of the videos are in sanmp raids. But if you use slow/inconsistent speed drives you get more and more video errors.

For check your sync you need to use something like this http://www.pharoahaudio.com/syncheck...thomepage.html and audio/video beeps/flash frames.

Remember that TV and desktop have delays too. Its not only your external ouput cards.

Your brain/eyes don't detect asynchronous AV with more os less 1 frame or even more sometimes.


Marco Bernardo

Dialog Editor, Sound Designer, Re-Recording mixer

PT HD 10/11 HDN Thunderbolt | HD OMNI | Frontier Alpha Track | Novation Impulse 25 | Waves Mercury Native | Audioease All In Bundle | SoundToys | McDSP Classic Pack | DUY Everpack

[Nick Camaron]

Originally Posted by Marco Bernardo

Remember that TV and desktop have delays too. Its not only your external ouput cards.

Your brain/eyes don't detect asynchronous AV with more os less 1 frame or even more sometimes.

Guys, to prevent this from going offtopic.

I'm talking about playback START delay.
= the time it takes from pressing spacebar to the point where audio is being played.

I wouldn't mind if video came in half a second later if only audio played immediately when pressing spacebar. What would you do with a piano with 0.4 seconds delay? Do away with! A responsive DAW is equally essential when editing quickly. Take your video track offline for a second and you know what I'm talking.

Plain botch what Avid is delivering here. I can't believe everyone is putting up with this.

Please vote here:
http://protools.ideascale.com/a/dtd/...a-tab-comments

Thanks

[mgoorevich]

Originally Posted by Marco Bernardo

For check your sync you need to use something like this http://www.pharoahaudio.com/syncheck...thomepage.html and audio/video beeps/flash frames.

Or this: http://www.sync-one2.co.uk/where-to-buy/

[MATH020682]

I am having this problem as well, its ridiculous, it's been a problem since 11. It really is sad. Has anyone tried running all their video off an ssd? Thats the only thing i can think of but i dont have one installed.

[Marco Bernardo]

Don't know if anyone know this, but it helps understand what's is under the bridge since AVID "removed" QT from PT.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6gxLZid2VR4

[MATH020682]

right, so they moved away from qt to avoid the need for external processing...
its less responsive when playing video than it was tho. weird

[Marco Bernardo]

Originally Posted by Nick Camaron

Guys, to prevent this from going offtopic.

I'm talking about playback START delay.
= the time it takes from pressing spacebar to the point where audio is being played.

I wouldn't mind if video came in half a second later if only audio played immediately when pressing spacebar. What would you do with a piano with 0.4 seconds delay? Do away with! A responsive DAW is equally essential when editing quickly. Take your video track offline for a second and you know what I'm talking.

Plain botch what Avid is delivering here. I can't believe everyone is putting up with this.

Please vote here:
http://protools.ideascale.com/a/dtd/...a-tab-comments

Thanks

We use the system that I posted earlier in 10 rooms, we didn't feel any difference in our speed, and believe me we are fast editors.

I'll test more this week and talk again with my coworkers to see if they feel the same or they get used too the "delay" if there's really any (in our machines).

Check the video link I've posted it's quite explanatory what Avid have being doing with AVE, we should remember that QT inside PT 10 and old versions was not always perfect and have more than 10 years of optimisation. I think what Avid have being doing with AVE is pretty fast to our demands, but it's not perfect, yet.
We found a solution to our workflow, we create a lot of audio/video content each week and we never missed a delivery

All I've posted is related to our workflow, use the info the best you can.

Create a case with Avid support team, they are great and will help you the best they can.

Cheers,

[MATH020682]

It doesn't change the fact that the delay is annoying, I'm not interested in getting used to a 0.5 second delay before each playback.
Its not necessary when i still have a copy of 10.
But its bizzare that it would be less responsive as the years go by.