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  #11  
Old 03-26-2019, 11:53 AM
xrekcor's Avatar
xrekcor xrekcor is offline
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Default Re: Recording rehearsals into PT while going through PA

Quote:
Originally Posted by JFreak View Post
Sell the analog mixer and mix inside the box, sending your stereo out straight to the amps. OR, send the stereo mix to the analog mixer and simply use it for volume control.

No reason to make things more complicated than that.
^^^Yup what he said
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Rob
———————————————————————————
MBP 15” 2018 macOS Mojave 10.14.5 Touch Bar and ID
2.2GHz 6 core 8 gen Intel Core i7 processor (TB’s to 4.1GHz)
32 Gb of 2400MHz DDR4, 1T SSD, Magic Mouse and Keyboard
Pro Tools 2019.5-21.#, Cubase 9.5, Yamaha TF5, UR44, BEHA4700
........and a bowl of M&M's
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  #12  
Old 03-26-2019, 09:55 PM
johnbarnesiii johnbarnesiii is offline
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Default Re: Recording rehearsals into PT while going through PA

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darryl Ramm View Post
If you are always playing along to Pro Tools VI tracks then that pushes my recommendations further towards ignoring the Yamaha, see below.

To answer your specific question the Motu 828 Mk III has many analog line level outputs, ten I think, which you could use as five different stereo pairs for different monitor mixes.

You don't seem to have enough preamps. The Motu has two built in preamps. You need at least at least three or four preamps.. vocals, drums, guitar (you mic the cab but need a preamp for that mic) and bass if you want to mic that bass cab. Now in reality you might also want to DI record the Bass (or only DI record it) and DI record the guitar so you can reamp it later, and may want more than one mic on the drums, even for “playing around” you can end up with lots of inputs/preamps needed. How much you want to do will depend on the intended recording use, budget, size/flexibility of the recording space, reusing equipment elsewhere, etc. Lots of things we have no idea about.

You might have guitar or bass amp heads that give a line out you can use, which might or might not sound OK.

You could get there with a live analog or digital mixer that has direct outs from the preamps and just pull that amplified out signal into line inputs in the Motu, or give up on the Motu and use a digital mixer that is a fully fledged multi-track audio interface in its own rights (like the ubiquitous Presonus StudioLive mixers).

The Yamaha mixer give neither of these, does not have line level outputs from each preamp and does not provide individual tracks to a DAW... it only provides the stereo mix down.

You could premix down a few channels in the mixer and record its main outputs if you absolutely had no other choice for . preamp. But I would consider returning the Yamaha mixer and saving the money for a larger more capable mixer or for a ADAT preamp -- a cost effective way to give your Motu more input preamps.

You have to spend time understanding this stuff. Sit down with the Motu interface and the user guide and work though how to mix in CueMix FX completely independent of Pro Tools. Since you have a computer running Pro Tools there anyhow you can have CueMix FX up on the screen. Using that mixer gets you out of dealing with latency in Pro Tools, and lets you play back the VIs using a large IO buffer for more reliability, you may also want to freeze/commit the VI tracks for more reliability. You'll quickly see wether using the CueMix FX GUI on a screen works or not or your band wants a mixer with mechanical controls.


Thank you for the reply. Yes I now realize as you mentioned, I will need more preamps than the 2 in the front of the MOTU, in order to fully setup for rehearsal recording.

I am thinking about getting an 8 channel rack mounted preamp unit that I can daisy chain into the MOTU 828 so as to expand the number of preamps I have available. This would help for the rehearsal recording as well as enable me to record a fully miked drum kit down the line when we’re ready to record out album. But for rehearsal purposes however all we’re doing drum wise is VI drums through Pro Tools, or perhaps 1 drum mic in the room to capture a quick idea on acoustic drums.

Which 8 channel preamp unit would you recommend for this? In addition to recording rehearsals, as mentioned we’ll be using it to record album quality drums for a record at some point down the line. So far I’m considering:

- MOTU 8pre (https://tinyurl.com/yxh3wjph)
- Focusrite 18I20 (https://tinyurl.com/y25ryrmt)

Would either of these work for my purposes? And be close to good enough quality as the pre’s on my 828mkiii?

I managed to get the QSC’s into my Pro Tools rig via a secondary out and additional master fader, which is a cool first step bc now I have the KRK monitors as one out and the QSC’s as another.

I think once I have figured out which preamp unit to get, I will do as you guys are suggesting and just go direct into the DAW rig, bypassing the Yamaha mixer. It seems to make the most sense based on what you guys are kindly explaining to me.

For bass I’ll plan to go DI out of my Orange Terror bass head and into a channel on whatever preamp unit I end up with. Same goes for guitar.

Thank you and any suggestions on the above preamp considerations, as well as others you have in mind, would be most appreciated!




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  #13  
Old 03-26-2019, 11:25 PM
Darryl Ramm Darryl Ramm is offline
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Default Re: Recording rehearsals into PT while going through PA

OK I like where you are going.

I like MOTU products, Focusrite make decent stuff as well. Some of it tends to be targeted downmarket a bit more. Focusrite have messed up some driver stuff in the past, not directly relevant here and all vendors have problem at times. I have not used either Pre/ADAT/USB box and would suggest you take advice from folks who have.

If You wanted to go with a Focusrite product you might also want to also consider the Clarett OctoPre. Other users here have said good things about the Audient pre/ADAT units in the past.

In this price range I suspect the units may be similar in pre-amp performance, but that's something you want feedback on from folks who have used them.

The MOTU ADAT preamp has two pairs of TOSLINK ports on the rear panel and so will support SMUX for higher sample rates. Not a show stopper but can be a nice flexibility thing to have. And unlike other ADAT units both of these are also a USB interfaces so handy if you want to split them up and use separately. The Focusrite has direct line out from the preamps that can also be a handy thing in situations, but here you don't need it yet... but say if you had ambitions to do more micing of a drum kit you might max out the ADAT input on the Motu 828 and need to free some of those analog inputs from preamps... but you can deal with that later if needed.

The Motu 828 Mk III has DI input options on both of its preamps so that means you don't need to worry about that on the ADAT preamp box... assuming you may record guitar and bass DI (OK the Terror Bass has line level DI Out, so that saves you one DI/preamp... you go straight into a line level input with that *not* a preamp like a usual DI box/you seem to be describing above) the 828 may have better preamps than your ADAT box, so play and see what you want to use say for vocals etc.

Then if you don't have this stuff the next steps will be buying microphone$, microphone and PA cables, mic stands, sound treatments like gobo panels, headphones/IEM if needed etc. If you are moving this stuff to and from a rehearsal space think about getting a mobile 19" rack/shipping rack so you can protect the gear and leave it partially connected.

Last edited by Darryl Ramm; 03-27-2019 at 01:28 AM.
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  #14  
Old 03-28-2019, 10:16 PM
johnbarnesiii johnbarnesiii is offline
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Default Re: Recording rehearsals into PT while going through PA

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darryl Ramm View Post
OK I like where you are going.

I like MOTU products, Focusrite make decent stuff as well. Some of it tends to be targeted downmarket a bit more. Focusrite have messed up some driver stuff in the past, not directly relevant here and all vendors have problem at times. I have not used either Pre/ADAT/USB box and would suggest you take advice from folks who have.

If You wanted to go with a Focusrite product you might also want to also consider the Clarett OctoPre. Other users here have said good things about the Audient pre/ADAT units in the past.

In this price range I suspect the units may be similar in pre-amp performance, but that's something you want feedback on from folks who have used them.

The MOTU ADAT preamp has two pairs of TOSLINK ports on the rear panel and so will support SMUX for higher sample rates. Not a show stopper but can be a nice flexibility thing to have. And unlike other ADAT units both of these are also a USB interfaces so handy if you want to split them up and use separately. The Focusrite has direct line out from the preamps that can also be a handy thing in situations, but here you don't need it yet... but say if you had ambitions to do more micing of a drum kit you might max out the ADAT input on the Motu 828 and need to free some of those analog inputs from preamps... but you can deal with that later if needed.

The Motu 828 Mk III has DI input options on both of its preamps so that means you don't need to worry about that on the ADAT preamp box... assuming you may record guitar and bass DI (OK the Terror Bass has line level DI Out, so that saves you one DI/preamp... you go straight into a line level input with that *not* a preamp like a usual DI box/you seem to be describing above) the 828 may have better preamps than your ADAT box, so play and see what you want to use say for vocals etc.

Then if you don't have this stuff the next steps will be buying microphone$, microphone and PA cables, mic stands, sound treatments like gobo panels, headphones/IEM if needed etc. If you are moving this stuff to and from a rehearsal space think about getting a mobile 19" rack/shipping rack so you can protect the gear and leave it partially connected.


Thanks Darryl.

I’ll check out the Clarett you mentioned and consider it alongside the others. I called Motu today about the 8 Pre usb unit. I think it will definitely do the job, and the quality of those pres are right in line with the two on my current 828.

Other option is to sell the 828 and get an upgraded audio interface with 8 quality pres already built in, however I don’t see that as being necessary at this point.

The Motu 8 Pre is $550 new which is a doable investment for this necessary upgrade. If I sold the 828 and put it towards something with 8 pres built in, im sure I’d end up spending more than that for something good quality.

So I’m leaning toward the Motu 8 pre usb at the moment, however still considering other options.

Thanks again for your suggestions, I will def keep in mind.



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  #15  
Old 03-29-2019, 06:28 AM
its2loud its2loud is offline
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Default Re: Recording rehearsals into PT while going through PA

Sell everything and buy this.

https://www.presonus.com/products/StudioLive-AR16-USB
Or this for more money
https://www.presonus.com/products/StudioLive-32SC

Done and done

You get your live mixer and recording interface all in one.
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