If YOUR groove VANISHES after Recording an OD... It AINT your ears... ADC ATE IT.....

[Zep Dude]

For what it's worth, PT has ruined takes because of delay issues. I now take several precautions before tracking:

Disable ADC
Set the compensation in Playback Engine to "short" or none
Disable plugs on the master (not bypass, disable)
Disable individual plugs that have long delays (you can see this when ADC is on).
256k buffer
Print any VI's and disable them

Then, most importantly, I always check the mic (or instrument) myself to see if I can detect latency in the headphones. Even experienced musicians may not mention this.

Another option, if I'm overdubbing after I've started setting up a mix, I will print the mix, import that into a fresh session and overdub from that. Then import the new tracks into the original session to finish the mix.

[Bushpig]

Zep,

Yes, it's a shame we have to jump through so many hoops to get our top of the range systems (worth thousands of quids) to record an overdub. I don't go quite as far as you to minimise overall system delay, but it is a major frig on to handle in the middle of a busy session. I START my fresh sessions with a mastering chain in place, coz I'm mixing as I go (composer working alone on tight deadlines, means it needs to sound right all the time). But when I have to remove all my RTAS only plugs on master and aux's (Digi's own AIR plugs are an embarrassment because of no TDM version), it just ruins the mix. I very rarely record other people these days, but I'd hate to have to explain to them why they are overdubbing on a track that no longer sounds the way it should (like it did before I had to ask them to give me 10 minutes while I disable a load of stuff and re-balance the song that was sounding good 1 minute ago).

I enquired with SSL about why their new Duende plugs are not TDM and they said because Avid wouldn't let them do a TDM version. For crying out loud DTS, you guys wont tell us where TDM systems are heading and you're crippling the platform we all like, for reasons I can only assume are corporate in nature. Give SSL and Slate and other RTAS only plug manufacturers a TDM licence for FFS and stop being asses about this.

Sorry all, getting more and more frustrated with handling this situation several times every day.

End of rant.

Steve Bush

PS: DTS, we still love you long time though.

[Mt.Everest]

Originally Posted by 25ghosts

PT HD 9 Latest Version
Rosetta 800 Interface


This is unacceptable especially since I have those options unchecked in the I/O Settings. And I dont think the rosettas are supporting this...

FWIW, I use a Rosetta 200 and I DO check the boxes in the I/O Setup. And have done tests overdubbing mid-mixing with them checked and unchecked.

While neither is perfect since is not Avid Hardware, when they are checked, i.e. ON, the audio is only off by 44 samples consistenly, as opposed to 200+ when unchecked.

My test was 128 buffer, Long Delay Comp, approx. 2000 samples total system delay. I ran an AUDIO click on the grid of an audio track that was being bussed thru an Aux to output 3, feeding headphones sitting on top of a mic, and the mic recording the click playback to a new track that I bussed to another Aux Master.
Zoomed in and the click was exactly 44 samples off (late or early? I forget). I can deal with that. With the boxes UNCHECKED, using the Rosetta again, the click return was 200+ samples off.

To be honest Im trying to recall the exact numbers and my routing, and I may not have the precise numbers, but I do know for SURE that the results recording with ADC ON, AND the Checkboxes ON, was in the 40s samples. MUCH better than Unchecked.

Ill try to repeat the test with more scientific routing and data.

25gh - That was the ONE thing that stuck out to me in your OP. Digidesign at the time said to leave the boxes checked even with 3rd party converters cuz while it wont be perfect, it will be better than NO compensation after record pass.

Granted, this test was done a year ago in PT7.4 so before I get hacked to death, Ill re-run it on my new system. (Signature shall soon be updated :)

MT

[zakco]

Originally Posted by Mt.Everest

My test was 128 buffer, Long Delay Comp, approx. 2000 samples total system delay. I ran an AUDIO click on the grid of an audio track that was being bussed thru an Aux to output 3, feeding headphones sitting on top of a mic, and the mic recording the click playback to a new track that I bussed to another Aux Master.

Why would you bother with micing up headphones when a simple loopback test (hardare out - hardware in) would be easier and more accurate?

[Bushpig]

Just bumping this for two reasons,

Come back 25 Ghosts!! Have you become a 26th and therefore real ghost this time??

DTS, anything to add??

Ta.

Steve Bush
http://music180.com/pros/5887

[ronwasserman]

Originally Posted by ronwasserman

I run all sessions with NO ADC to avoid this problem. Very slowly making the transition over to Logic for composing as the PT issues seemingly will never be resolved.

Just to update anyone else considering this, I've spent a fair amount of time getting a feel for Logic. YIKES!!!!! I'll put up with the PT issues. LOL! (Please don't ask what my problems were with Logic as they run the gambit.)

[Bushpig]

Ron,

YIKES!!!!! I'll put up with the PT issues. LOL!

Of course a cynic (not me, heaven forbid) might point out that mercifully you didn't have to spend £50,000 on buying a Logic setup to find this out, like a lot of us have done in order to be frustrated with PT behaving badly. Just saying, that's all.

Have a top weekend all.

Steve Bush
http://music180.com/pros/5887

[DigiTechSupt]

Originally Posted by Bushpig

Just bumping this for two reasons,

Come back 25 Ghosts!! Have you become a 26th and therefore real ghost this time??

DTS, anything to add??

Ta.

Steve Bush
http://music180.com/pros/5887

Let's see here - rather than putting plug-ins on the master fader, route everything to an aux track first and put the plug-ins on there, then route to the master fader.

Make sure to insert a TDM plug-in before an RTAS plug-ins in the chain to reduce 'back and forth' from the CPU to TDM.

Disabling ADC on specific tracks may also help, but to be sure I'd need to see a session you're having the problem with to determine if that's usable or not. In fact, seeing a session would be best - that way I can see exactly how you're working, what the problem is and give direct feeback on it.

[ronwasserman]

Originally Posted by Bushpig

Ron,



Of course a cynic (not me, heaven forbid) might point out that mercifully you didn't have to spend £50,000 on buying a Logic setup to find this out, like a lot of us have done in order to be frustrated with PT behaving badly. Just saying, that's all.

Have a top weekend all.

Steve Bush
http://music180.com/pros/5887

Sorry you had to go through that Steve. I learned how 'difficult' Logic is for only the cost of the software.

I think I'm going to fire up Digital Performer again and see how that goes. Since 90% of my work now is composing I just wish I could find the right software for speeding up my score to pic workflow. I'll always use PT for recording/mixing and naturally the mix stages but for composing it's not going to get better.

[TLarvenz]

Same position we've been in since HD Accel was released EIGHT years ago. In the time since HD Accel was launched, the most complex machine ever built (the space shuttle) has been launched and relaunched 22 times, Apple launched the iPhone (now on the fourth generation), Apple became profitable and then a giant, the average computer processor speed went from about 700 MHz single processors to 3 Ghz multicore processors, the Iraq war started, the BlackBerry phone made its debut, the large hadron super collider was completed, LCD televisions became the standard overtaking the CRT, the average size of hard drives went from 250 GB to 2 TB; the now ubiquitous Facebook, Twitter, MySpace were all launched, Internet usage globally went from 9% to 30% of the population, cd sales went from 635 million to 98 million, 4 Pirates of the Caribbean movies have been produced and released, the economy boomed and then tanked, the Dow Jones average hit 14164 and then hit 6547, the average home price went from $319k to 217k, and my son went from preschool to high school. In that same period the consumer MBox line has received eight new products (including the Eleven). In that same time the professional ProTools HD line has received zero updates to its hardware accelerated products. A bone of sorts was tossed to us in the form of HD Native, but it's billed as a step between the LE and Accel systems. No matter how you slice it, the professional market is not an Avid priority.

Originally Posted by Bushpig

Zep,
For crying out loud DTS, you guys wont tell us where TDM systems are heading and you're crippling the platform we all like, for reasons I can only assume are corporate in nature. Give SSL and Slate and other RTAS only plug manufacturers a TDM licence for FFS and stop being asses about this.

Sorry all, getting more and more frustrated with handling this situation several times every day.

End of rant.

Steve Bush

PS: DTS, we still love you long time though.