Putting a limiter on Master Fader

[RandyPokeda]

Does it make sense to put a limiter or a compressor on the master fader so you can keep the signal just under 0 without it clipping. Are there other ways.
I would love to hear what others are doing when it comes to the final mix.



Randy

[Jakay]

Hey, a fellow Best Coaster!

Yeah it makes sense. Convention is to bounce your song first and then apply that stuff to your pre-master version, which gives you the mastered version. But I'm sure there are people who just apply their mastering effects to the master output too. The downside of that is it doesn't let you analyze the file in the same way to see what you'd like to add.

Typically, in the basic mastering signal chain, EQ goes first, then your compression (multiband or full spectrum both have their places), then lastly your brickwall limiter. You want a really light touch on all of these though (Eq like 1-3db changes, compressor at like 1.5:1, and then because it's all the rage, your limiter cranked to maximum to ensure you're music sounds as close to white noise as it can ), because if you're messing too much with the sound at this point it really means you should just go back and fix your mix first.

Also definitely don't take my word as gospel on the subject, and trust your ears.

[musicman691]

Originally Posted by RandyPokeda

Does it make sense to put a limiter or a compressor on the master fader so you can keep the signal just under 0 without it clipping. Are there other ways.
I would love to hear what others are doing when it comes to the final mix.



Randy

Originally Posted by Jakay

Hey, a fellow Best Coaster!

Yeah it makes sense. Convention is to bounce your song first and then apply that stuff to your pre-master version, which gives you the mastered version. But I'm sure there are people who just apply their mastering effects to the master output too. The downside of that is it doesn't let you analyze the file in the same way to see what you'd like to add.

Typically, in the basic mastering signal chain, EQ goes first, then your compression (multiband or full spectrum both have their places), then lastly your brickwall limiter. You want a really light touch on all of these though (Eq like 1-3db changes, compressor at like 1.5:1, and then because it's all the rage, your limiter cranked to maximum to ensure you're music sounds as close to white noise as it can ), because if you're messing too much with the sound at this point it really means you should just go back and fix your mix first.

Also definitely don't take my word as gospel on the subject, and trust your ears.

The OP as I understand it isn't talking about mastering a tune but putting a limiter on the Master Fader to keep levels from hitting 0 dbfs.

Good idea but you shouldn't be running levels so hot that you have to worry about such things, especially if you want to avoid the Metallica 'Death Magnetic syndrome'. The better thing to do would be to keep your levels down to around -6 db, give or take. This allows for room during the true mastering phase for such things as eq, glue compression, etc.

[Rob Da Silva]

Try setting up an aux track on an unused stereo bus and send the mix tracks to it. The notion is a "submix" on the aux. Place whatever effects you wish on the aux. Then route the submit aux to the master fader. I do this so that any fader movements on the master does not drag down the music actually going to the effects. The master fader is a "pre" fader.

[Lincoln Mitchell]

Actually Master Faders are Post Fader, which is why automation changes would affect limiting/compression. Inserting those plugs on a pre fader aux, and automating the aux, maintains the signal levels at the compressor/limiter...

[clausiii]

And if you clip, simply move the master fader down, since the mixer itself is 32bit float internal, there is not problem with that.

[WernerF]

Or do it the old fashioned way: don't create a mix that clips anything by bringing the level of your whole mix down. Proper gain staging techniques go a long long way towards creating a better mix. Creating an aux track, as Rob has suggested, is a great and tried and true method that works great. Put your limiting and whatever on that and mix into the limiting so that you control the "glue" of the mix. I never give the mastering engineer the OK to re mix my track by adding a bunch of his own limiting. That's not his job, he's a mastering engineer, not a mixer. If our mix comes back sounding different than what we sent him, besides maybe tighter low end and some extra level, it goes back to him and gets revised until it is correct.

[The Drummer]

I think its important to add some perspective to this discussion.
I originally assumed that the master fader in PT was designed to mimic the action of the master fader on all the great old analog desks. All those old desks, and I worked on them all, had a master fader post the inserts. This meant that after you had added your master eq, limiting and compression they remained active on the mix during the end fade(old engineers never die - they just do a fade!). Inexplicably, the PT master fader does not work like that since it operates pre the inserts. As you do a fade the mix bus level is lowered into the inserts and the mix loses all its tension as it fades.
When I discovered this (after about 5 years} I put it to about 5 engineers in London who had also made the switch from analog to digital and they too were horrified. I can find no use for the PT master fader in the work I do. I just use auxes.

[JFreak]

Originally Posted by The Drummer

PT master fader does not work like that since it operates pre the inserts.

Yes. It's like putting your compresors/limiters/whatever after the signal leaves the console. No problem, you just need to know how it works. Master fader "inserts" are not inserts, it's just stuff you put in after everything is said and done -- and what is sent to the speakers.

[JFreak]

Originally Posted by WernerF

Or do it the old fashioned way: don't create a mix that clips anything by bringing the level of your whole mix down. Proper gain staging techniques go a long long way towards creating a better mix.

Yes, but that said, there's nothing wrong in using a limiter "that does nothing" just to be on the safe side. If the limiter does nothing (=is bit-transparent, meaning that if the gain reduction is 0.00dB it is just the same as no limiter at all) the it's just a safety device. So you have a 5-minute song that has 5 samples over digital maximum, then limiter saves your butt and no limiter introduces 5 clips.

Point being, watch the gain reduction. If you mix, your limiter should show 0.00dB gain reduction pretty much all the time. But as long as it's not doing anything, there's no harm (if the limiter is good). Even some free ones like Massey Limiter are bit transparent while doing nothing so AFAIK there's no harm.