192 Digital I/O External Clock out question

[antonis]

A bit confused here... I insist keeping a Soundcraft Spirit 328 desk at my home. I am trying to wordclock sync it with my 192 Digital I/O. Obvious choice is the external clock out but for whatever reason the desk doesn't want to play ball. The situation is this:

The Spirit 328 menu has several options for wordclocking: Internal 44.1Khz and 48Khz, AES/EBU, Wordclock and Superclock - external.
Connecting the External Wordclock Out of the 192 Digital I/O to the Wordclock In of the desk and setting the desk to expect wordclock or superclock does not work and the desk comes up with the message stating so. AES/EBU works just fine.

Would anyone have any idea why? Looking at the back of the 192 Digital I noticed that the External Clock is labeled as: Ext.Clock 1x/256x. What does this actually suggest?

Thanks all

[Top Jimmy]

1x is word clock, 256x is super clock.

IIRC, you have to go into the hardware setup in Pro Tools to set the word clock output and rate for the 192 hardware. Look for the Ext. Clock Output setting in the hardware setup for that 192 Digital.

[antonis]

Hey Top Jimmy

I am fully aware of the difference between wordclock and superclock. What IS confusing is the label saying Ext.Clock 1x/256x. Would this suggest that you can set it up to work 1x or 256x depending to what you have the 192 connected to? If so, I just cannot see an option in the Hardware Setup.
Or would there be an auto-detect feature somewhere, somehow?

In the meantime, when I tell the desk to expect either 1x or 256x it comes back saying "No Wordclock - Using Internal" (Clock)

My Hardware Setup is set up as Clock Source: Internal, Loop Master is the 192 Digital (is my only device). Under the Ext. Clock Output menu I've tried both the Word Clock and the Word Clock (TDIF) options just to check if it makes any difference...it doesn't..of course...

Is my 192 Digital i/o faulty ?!?!?

BTW, I am using a 75ohm terminator at the clock out port of with my desk and I've checked a couple of leads as well. I will try a few more tomorrow but I doubt it these are the culprits as they were working perfectly fine before.

[JFreak]

The 192 outputs super clock (256x) when you have Legacy gear in the system, otherwise it is normal word clock (1x). And the loop sync clock is always 1x which is nice to know if you need both

[antonis]

The 192 outputs super clock (256x) when you have Legacy gear in the system, otherwise it is normal word clock (1x). And the loop sync clock is always 1x which is nice to know if you need both

Many thanks for this info. I am still having problems though!!! .Obviously, it is either the output of the 192 or the input of the desk that is having the problem. But since the desk was fine a week before with a Mix Plus system and a USD, I take it that it must be the 192 Digital that is causing the problem. If you don't mind I will describe what I've done below and any feedback would be much appreciated.

Perhaps I should describe first what I am using at home and how I want them to be connected. Apart from the 192 Digital i/o and the Soundcraft Spirit 328, there is a Lexicon PCM91 and a PCM81, and TL Audio Pre with a digital out option. The plan is to have the ADAT outs from Digital I/O back to the desk for summing there and when needed use the 9-16 ins and outs via AES to use the Lexicons as inserts. There is a Finalizer that is expected to arrived so that would be dropped there as well. Also, when using the TL Audio Pre, it would be connected to the 192 Digital via SPDIF. Recording FROM the desk would be via ADAT to the inputs 1-8.

So, what I've tried first is:

1. Digital 192 is clock is set to Internal and External Clock is set to wordclock. The desk does is not receiving any wordclock sync.

2. I change the settings of the desk to expect signal from AES/EBU and it finds the clock, but...as soon as I connect my ADAT leads to inputs 1-8 or 9-16 and record enable tracks, that's it. Pops and clicks from incorrect clocking plague the system.

3. I set the desk as the master and connect it to the 192 Digital via wordclock. The 192 Digital is happy with the external clock but again...as soon as my ADAT cables are in that's it...clicks and pops galore.

4. Same thing when the desk sends clocking information through AES down to the 192.

5. Last thing I tried is slaving the 192 Digital via ADAT either through port 1-8 or 9-16. Not a fat chance.

It is worth mentioning that connecting the PCM91 and PCM81 as inserts works like a breeze. Not syncing issues whatsoever (The wordclock info gets transferred through the AES leads). So, it is the connection with the desk that causes the problem.

This thing shouldn't be simply happening. But any ideas please?

[JFreak]

You have so many digital pieces I don't even try to understand it all. But few things come to mind, though.

1) Are you sure the Soundcraft desk is set to clock slave? It seems to me that whenever it outputs ADAT it also declares itself a clock master. Pops and clicks are usually strong indication of two master clocks in one system, which is never a good thing.

2) Have you tried setting the 192 digital inputs to automatic sample rate conversion? If there is a sample rate mismatch, weird things happen. usually it would sound like a million bees buzzing, but you never know. Double-check sampling rates and then set the sample rate conversion option on, just to be sure. It doesn't hurt if the sample rates match, but it'll save the day if they don't.

3) Have you tried outputting clock from the 192 loop sync? It is always normal 1x word clock and if the Soundcraft desc cannot lock to it there's a hardware fault somewhere. If the desk locks to loop sync but does not lock to external clock output, then you need to contact Digi (ahem, Avid...) to get your faulty 192 repaired.

4) Whatever you try, please, always minimize the "moving parts" of your equation. Try connecting two pieces first, and once that succeeds, add one more. Don't do it all at once because you obviously have lost yourself somewhere or you have a faulty hardware. Either way you have to troubleshoot one piece of gear at a time.

[formfunction]

Originally Posted by antonis

A bit confused here... I insist keeping a Soundcraft Spirit 328 desk at my home. I am trying to wordclock sync it with my 192 Digital I/O. Obvious choice is the external clock out but for whatever reason the desk doesn't want to play ball. The situation is this:

The Spirit 328 menu has several options for wordclocking: Internal 44.1Khz and 48Khz, AES/EBU, Wordclock and Superclock - external.
Connecting the External Wordclock Out of the 192 Digital I/O to the Wordclock In of the desk and setting the desk to expect wordclock or superclock does not work and the desk comes up with the message stating so. AES/EBU works just fine.

Would anyone have any idea why? Looking at the back of the 192 Digital I noticed that the External Clock is labeled as: Ext.Clock 1x/256x. What does this actually suggest?

Thanks all

If I remember correctly. the Spirit will connect to the interface with AES/EBU only.. and the other clocking was pertinent if using an ADAT bridge. I could certainly be wrong, but that is my recollection, (and seems to be your experience). Good Luck, ff

[Hanswurstlsepp]

Hi antonis,

while reading thru the thread it came in my mind that you will save probably, eventually and maybe a lot of time & headache if you go for a good external clock .... like BigBen.

Simply use the BigBen as clock-master and slave all your digital stuff to it.
Either use AES/EBU, WC, ADAT or SPDIF.

I'm doing so too and running 2 PCs (with RME Multiface & 9632), a Roland V-Synth GT, a MacBookPro with ProFire Lightbridge) and some more stuff beside my PT-gear. All those digital outs are going back to the Digi-interfaces. Some Digital Ins and Outs I have connected to a Siemens patchbay - some are connected directly.

My Digi-Interfaces are synced to the BigBen's wordclock outs and I do not use loopsync. Each one is connected directly as a slave via WC with the BigBen.

This worked great with PT-Mix HW and still works great with PT-HD-HW

... just my 2 cents...

[antonis]

Hey Hans

I don't wholly disagree with the external clock solution. I am borrowing a Rosendahl Nanosync from work today to make some tests and take it from there. But to be honest, I am trying to avoid the cost of an external clock if I can. I do not have a lot of digital equipment that require BNC wordclock connection - at least for the time being. Really, it is the 192 Digital, the desk and the TL Audio pre (the Lexicon did not produce any problem and clock from the AES). And while searching the DUC, everyone keeps one saying that the PT HD clock is pretty descent, so yes...if I can avoid it I will.

[antonis]

I finally got something out of it yesterday. I patched a Rosendahl Nanosyncs yesterday to both the Soundcraft Spirit 328 and the 192 Digital and everything clocked just fine. Which means that

1. both units can accept wordclock. Nothing wrong with their wordclock IN ports.

Establishing that, I went to use the 192 Digital as the master and I slaved my TL Audio preamp to it. Again, no probs whatsoever. So,

2. The 192 slaves other devices just as fine.

But when I went back selected the 192 Digital as the master and slaved the desk to it, the desk could not find a clocking reference (!). So, my question - finally - is: what makes the Soundcraft Spirit 328 not to recognize the clocking info that comes from the 192 Digital? Could it be that something has changed in the clocking technology and a desk as sold as the Spirit 328 (it is over 10 years old) is rendered incompatible? Avid if you could provide some insight that would be great.

But for anyone that might be interested, I managed to sync the desk to the 192 Digital i/o via AES/EBU. So far, everything seems to be working.

By the way, has anyone else using the this Soundcraft Desk?