Is the forum better or worse since the adding of the new mods?

[Kenny Gioia]

Originally Posted by Eric Lambert

You know that to be true, or that's your guess? I assume a guess because some mods are showing up a lot more often.

I know it to be true because I'm one of the mods who has posted a lot less. Having the responsibility of wearing this badge also makes it important for us to think before we speak. Before, I could call you a "jerk" without any concern that you might think that Avid thinks you're a "jerk" and we all got together and decided it was time to express that to you.

As moderators, we try to be fair and get all the info right. For some of us, that means biting our tongue until it makes the most sense to speak and not confuse things further.

Personally (not speaking for Avid here) I am sorry if you think this place has changed. Hopefully that will just be a temporary situation as we all figure this out together. None of us want to stifle your opinions or move or delete posts. We're members too and have been asked to simply keep the peace and inform the users when we have more info than you.

Keep in mind, we're all still individuals who do not meet each day to get our marching orders. We work in this industry the same way the rest of you do and we have issues with Avid at times as well. It's not us against you. We're here for you.

Originally Posted by Eric Lambert

Worse are the suggestions by moderators that another member's "opinion" is wrong.

This is the part that many of us must wrestle with. And we've discussed it amongst ourselves at length. If I say that your opinion is wrong about something, is it being said by "Kenny Gioia" or by "Avid".

It's a touchy subject but none of us (based on my conversations) want to be authorities in everything we say. We're still just people who are as right or wrong as anyone else. We're just also trying to keep the threads civil and clean.

And I promise, no matter how much I hate the Shure SM7 on vocals, I will never delete a post that disagrees with me.

Thank you for your understanding.

-kenny

[Eric Lambert]

I understand the two faces. As I mentioned previously I also moderate a forum and since deciding to do so have lost much of my ability to post as myself because no matter how diplomatic I am with my personal opinion someone chimes in and claims that I've overstepped my boundaries as a moderator, though I wasn't playing that role in that particular case.

So yes, I realize that it's not always an easy job and that it can take time to make the two separate personalities harmonious.

[Craig F]

I will also cop to hitting the edit button instead of the quote button
also I have edited one or tow of my quotes only for spelling or grammatical errors that were I also fixed in the post that was quoted
never to change what was said

[Bob Olhsson]

What I'm seeing is that anything only Avid can really answer is getting answered a lot more quickly under this system.

[froyo]

Hello. I have never liked so called 'User' Moderators. It's attempting to balance things that really have no balance, trying to create a middle ground where there is none to be had. The parallel would be if a local Police department would deputize a few citizens to monitor traffic on their block. The citizens would really have no power to arrest or give tickets, but would be able to stop drivers and call the real Police to do the actual ticketing or arrest.

A more accurate analogy would be if this cybernetic forum was an actual physical space where we would all meet face to face. Say a big ballroom where we would all gather physically to chat about Pro Tools. The company employees would be there to make sure no one would get out of hand, insulting, drunk, etc. If in that same scenario, if all of a sudden some of the same people attending the party overnight became 'hall monitors' telling people to keep it down, or stay on topic, etc. it creates a lot of mistrust from other people. It has a very chilling effect on communications because people feel like Big Brother is watching and that we can not fully express ourselves as we could before.

The dynamic that is created is a very bad one. We need very defined lines. Customers and Company. Users and Employees. A hybrid user/employee leads to a lot of distrust and misunderstandings as is evident from this thread.

Jot me down as one who has never liked user moderators in any forum anywhere and one that doesn't like it on this forum. As mentioned before by others, as a user today I can give any opinion I want and all users know that it is just my opinion and they can choose to ignore it or give it any weight they want or dismiss it completely.

If tomorrow I become a moderator, anything I say will be interpreted consciously or unconsciously by other members as being a direct communication from the company, not the user. So if as a moderator I were to say something like, "now don't be stupid, don't say ignorant things" or "don't be lazy, read the manual", in a very practical, bottom line sense, it is Digidesign that is calling that user lazy and stupid, not me. Not good.

If we are voting on this put me down as someone who would do away with hybrid user/employees. Either pay them and bring them on the company payroll or let them go back to being strictly users.

[Kenny Gioia]

Originally Posted by Eric Lambert

I understand the two faces. As I mentioned previously I also moderate a forum and since deciding to do so have lost much of my ability to post as myself because no matter how diplomatic I am with my personal opinion someone chimes in and claims that I've overstepped my boundaries as a moderator, though I wasn't playing that role in that particular case.

So yes, I realize that it's not always an easy job and that it can take time to make the two separate personalities harmonious.

Thanks for your understanding and patience.

[Kenny Gioia]

Originally Posted by froyo

Hello. I have never liked so called 'User' Moderators. It's attempting to balance things that really have no balance, trying to create a middle ground where there is none to be had. The parallel would be if a local Police department would deputize a few citizens to monitor traffic on their block. The citizens would really have no power to arrest or give tickets, but would be able to stop drivers and call the real Police to do the actual ticketing or arrest.

I think you're looking at this a bit askew. Our job is not to write tickets or punish users when they misbehave. We're here to help. Instead of looking at us like deputized citizens or hall monitors that need to call the real "police" when a problem erupts, look at us like crossing guards at your local elementary school or traffic guards who control the flow of traffic.

One of my duties is to moderate the "Tips and Tricks" forum. I don't think it's a coincidence that I have four "Pro Tools Tips and Tricks" tutorials available. They (probably) want me to add more tips to that forum and encourage others to do the same.

I (we) have more pressing issues in our lives than to volunteer to help "police" the forums for a few bad apples with too much time on their hands. We're here because we believe in users helping other users. We're still users.

Originally Posted by froyo

If tomorrow I become a moderator, anything I say will be interpreted consciously or unconsciously by other members as being a direct communication from the company, not the user. So if as a moderator I were to say something like, "now don't be stupid, don't say ignorant things" or "don't be lazy, read the manual", in a very practical, bottom line sense, it is Digidesign that is calling that user lazy and stupid, not me. Not good.

As I've said, this is something that we wrestle with. Personally, I'll just try to refrain from calling anyone ignorant or stupid. It's not necessary. If my goal on these (or any) forums is to help people, then I should be able to behave in a way that Avid wouldn't mind backing me up on. If I'm going to get into a pissing contest with someone, then I've veered off from the reason I'm here. That's not to say that I don't enjoy a good debate, but it can be done respectfully.

Thanks

[froyo]

Hello. The thing is, whether you want to accept it or not, the minute you become a moderator, you become a part of the company. I know user/moderators are not actually employed by the company, but for all practical purposes that is a distinction we the plain users don't care about. You are part of the company now.

You know the old saying 'perception is reality'. Whether it is fair or not, the perception for many is that when user/moderators speak they do so with the blessing of the company and are speaking for the company. If the perception of a portion of the members here is that the new moderators make this place worse, then that is the reality of the situation for us.

You say that you're not here to write tickets or punish but to help, but you can already see that there have been instances where user/moderators told users to stay on topic, etc. That's policing, if user/moderators were here just to give tips and help, I doubt the company would need to give you titles of moderators.

You say that you are here to control the flow of traffic but those duties are not about helping, they are about 'giving tickets' or 'punishment'. Because you are in charge of traffic your duties are those that demand that you 'get people in line' sometimes. That's where the divide comes in.

I only need policing from the police. The real police. Not some school guard, rent a cop or deputized citizen. It hasn't happened to me, but if a user/moderator were to censor, edit or somehow change something I posted, or reprimanded me in some way, my reaction would be 'hey you are just a user like I am, you are no one to tell me what to do'.

The other would be that I would probably be less inclined to participate, maybe to the point of not coming back at all. As it stands now, I have not had any 'run ins' with any user/moderator but their mere presence on the DUC has already made a lot less willing to participate. The vibe has changed, and not for the better.

You can't have your cake and eat it too. You all say that you are still just a user like me. If that's the case, then I don't have to listen to you or be policed by you. If on the other hand you truly are no longer just a plain user like me and do have authority over what I write, then you are no longer a user, you are part of the company whether you are paid or not.

It's just not a healthy vibe, it smacks too much of tattletale.

[peter5992]

I am a relative newbie on these forums, I just want to welcome one of the new moderators: Marianne.

She comes from the Avid Media Composer forums - the picture editing dudes - and her dedication to customer service is legendary. She got me straightened out with my license for the Avid.

Welcome Marianne!

Or should I say, welcome to hell?

[musicman691]

Originally Posted by froyo

Hello. The thing is, whether you want to accept it or not, the minute you become a moderator, you become a part of the company. I know user/moderators are not actually employed by the company, but for all practical purposes that is a distinction we the plain users don't care about. You are part of the company now.

You know the old saying 'perception is reality'. Whether it is fair or not, the perception for many is that when user/moderators speak they do so with the blessing of the company and are speaking for the company. If the perception of a portion of the members here is that the new moderators make this place worse, then that is the reality of the situation for us.

You say that you're not here to write tickets or punish but to help, but you can already see that there have been instances where user/moderators told users to stay on topic, etc. That's policing, if user/moderators were here just to give tips and help, I doubt the company would need to give you titles of moderators.

You say that you are here to control the flow of traffic but those duties are not about helping, they are about 'giving tickets' or 'punishment'. Because you are in charge of traffic your duties are those that demand that you 'get people in line' sometimes. That's where the divide comes in.

I only need policing from the police. The real police. Not some school guard, rent a cop or deputized citizen. It hasn't happened to me, but if a user/moderator were to censor, edit or somehow change something I posted, or reprimanded me in some way, my reaction would be 'hey you are just a user like I am, you are no one to tell me what to do'.

The other would be that I would probably be less inclined to participate, maybe to the point of not coming back at all. As it stands now, I have not had any 'run ins' with any user/moderator but their mere presence on the DUC has already made a lot less willing to participate. The vibe has changed, and not for the better.

You can't have your cake and eat it too. You all say that you are still just a user like me. If that's the case, then I don't have to listen to you or be policed by you. If on the other hand you truly are no longer just a plain user like me and do have authority over what I write, then you are no longer a user, you are part of the company whether you are paid or not.

It's just not a healthy vibe, it smacks too much of tattletale.

I think you are looking at this all wrong. In the past there have been too many threads that have gone off the rails horribly and begged for quicker attention than they got. So a moderator asks people to keep on topic - I see nothing wrong with that. If that mod happens to be a regular user as well - I have no problem with that.

Controlling traffic is NOT giving tickets or punishment. Would you call a traffic signal a ticket or punishment? No. It's something that alerts one to either be cautious or to stop. Would you say that someone directing traffic was punishing you or giving you a ticket? No. Police exist to help you; giving tickets is secondary. Same thing here.

If someone edits or deletes a post of mine it's because I stepped over the line. I take it like a grownup and don't whine about it. Yes it has happened to me and I'm still here AND I take steps to see that I don't get into that kind of situation again. Remember this is Avid's forum and they can run it as they see fit. Also remember that you pay Avid nothing to post here.