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  #121  
Old 01-17-2020, 09:18 PM
lae777 lae777 is offline
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Default Re: Pro Tools 2020.1

Quote:
Originally Posted by jasonkalman View Post
I love that idea. If only I could be your Commander Spock so we could make this happen Captain
Be careful what you wish for!
I suspect that if Adobe purchased Avid, Pro Tools would become totally subscription based in no time!
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  #122  
Old 01-17-2020, 10:57 PM
LDS LDS is offline
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Default Re: Pro Tools 2020.1

Quote:
Originally Posted by jasonkalman View Post
I hear you. I just wish there was a solution to this endless OS compatibility issue. It ties up AVID resources and I think that is one of the reasons we see less actual meaningful updates. In my opinion this is a waste of software development resources. They are always behind the curve, treading water, and never have enough time to perfect the present OS before they are forced to start working on the new OS. Why does Apple have to release a new OS every year, I mean every year? That is way too often. I think every 3 years is about the right frequency for a new OS. Bottomline: there has to be a better way moving forward and developing their own computing hardware and simple OS that just runs what it has to run would be the way to go. Again, just my opinion. If we are willing to drop $$$ on a new audio interface like MTRX, why would we not be willing to drop $$$ on a dedicated rack mounted audio processing hardware unit? It would still be ethernet/wifi capable and able to do what it needs to do to stay current, but it wouldn't be affected by Windows and Apples OS updates. Apple in particular is making it harder and harder for software developers to keep up. These OS updates are complex and getting more complex each year.

I read that Apple is moving away from Intel processors. So what is that going to do to software developers? I'm no software engineer, but that has to be a huge hurdle to overcome, even more complex than going 64 bit for Catalina. Now you'll have to figure out how to run on the new CPUs while still maintaining backward compatibility and Windows compatibility. Yikes.

Blaming Avid is probably a good start to fixing the issues with Pro Tools. No other software developer drags their feet as much. Ableton released a working version within days of Catalina being released. RME did the same with drivers. Avid, on the other hand? They are only just implementing folder tracks... one of the most requested features on idea scale from a decade ago(?).

Blaming Apple for Avid's mess is the easy way out, I think. People buy MTRX interfaces because they consolidate half a dozen devices into one. Comprehensive I/O. Mic Preamps. The ability to split a single interface between two HDX systems. Monitor Controller, and dedicated DSP speaker processing. A rack processing unit would do the opposite. Adopting a new OS of any kind, does the opposite. Who is going to port all of the plugins? Who is going to provide the sound librarian software? Who is going to provide the audio repair tools? Who is going to provide the monitor calibration software?

There really is no easy way to get around the issue, short of creating another fifty issues in the process. It would be easier to just pull the pin on Apple altogether and stick with PC.
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  #123  
Old 01-18-2020, 12:14 AM
TNM TNM is offline
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Default Re: Pro Tools 2020.1

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Originally Posted by capt kirk View Post
heck no, its not a weak toy at all. its handcuffed by the financial reality of the world, its not ellen musk, with thier relatives from banks buying thier shares...with free printed money....if only.......


Seriously though, PT is THE most ragged about DAW on the net.. bar none.

Totally undeservedly. LE, yes, vs Logic and stuff at the time. Not now.
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  #124  
Old 01-18-2020, 12:23 AM
TNM TNM is offline
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Default Re: Pro Tools 2020.1

Quote:
Originally Posted by LDS View Post
Blaming Avid is probably a good start to fixing the issues with Pro Tools. No other software developer drags their feet as much. Ableton released a working version within days of Catalina being released. RME did the same with drivers. Avid, on the other hand? They are only just implementing folder tracks... one of the most requested features on idea scale from a decade ago(?).

This is what I mean.. don't always think the grass is greener.

Tell me, would you like your playhead to be out of time with your audio, so what you see is not in time with what you hear?

That's precisely what happens in Ableton, always, and including V10 (10.1.5 was the last time I tested it).

You could have an 100 track project. Just one latent effect, ANYWHERE, on ANY track, will put the whole DAW out of sync visually. PT not only keeps perfect visual sync but also automation and has perfect ADC (other than the minor limitation that it should be a bit larger buffer just to cater for those very few plugin exceptions).

Live IS a toy.. now that's the very definition of a toy, that has never taken editing or pro users seriously. It's absolute and utter rubbish if we are still dealing with ADC issues in 2020.. ones that ableton have known about for, oh, 15 YEARS!

Solution? Use ONLY zero latency plugins in live, so your playback cursor can always be in time with your audio.. Or add just one linear phase EQ somewhere (for example), or mix with UAD, and watch the playhead pass over the start of the audio and there's no sound till a second later. I can't find the right emoticon here for the LOLZ but trust me I'm in hysterics that this still even happens.

WOW, avid doing folder tracks just now.. THANKS avid, actually. And for doing it in a way that looks so elegant, in keeping with Pro tool's ground breaking, best workflow GUI of any DAW bar none.

Pro tools is so ahead of live in every area other than the clips which I find counter intuitive and never used anyway, not even when I had Project 5. Live can't hold a candle to PT.

But if there is some super special feature you *really* need from Live, just rewire slave it.

Oh, and Avid released a Catalina working version very fast. I COMMEND them for how fast they were.
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-MBP 15" 2.8ghz 4 core, 16gb ram, 750M, triple boot OS 10.12.6/10.13.6/10.14.6, On board analog audio out, PT 12/2018/2019
-Whenever I launch Pro Tools, I get wet.(™) Best DAW ever.
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  #125  
Old 01-18-2020, 01:08 AM
seanmccoy seanmccoy is offline
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Default Re: Pro Tools 2020.1

Avid gets bashed the most because of its historical high cost. But I agree, despite its obvious flaws Pro Tools allows for a very professional workflow that I love, and I'm in it for the long haul. I will say that clip bin folders is the missing feature I'd put at the top of the priority list—especially for us post guys. Hope to see that very soon.
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  #126  
Old 01-18-2020, 01:51 AM
YYR123's Avatar
YYR123 YYR123 is online now
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Default Re: Pro Tools 2020.1

Quote:
Originally Posted by jasonkalman View Post
So then why doesn't AVID just take the computer out of the equation, ala RADAR? Why are they letting Apple screw with them every year? Develop a stand alone rack mounted processor that just run Pro Tools. Many of us would gladly give up computer based recording. All we need is for a company like AVID to develop a system that takes the computer out of the loop. Problem solved. Considering all the resources they have to put into OS compatibility every year, why not develop their own proprietary computing ecosystem? Can't be anymore expensive then what they are charging for MTRX. Maybe they can make it similar to the cost of a reasonably priced computer. Most of us use our powerful computers to run audio software and plugins anyway. I'd love to not have to upgrade my computer every few years.

Yes !!!^^^^^^^^
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  #127  
Old 01-18-2020, 02:28 AM
LDS LDS is offline
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Default Re: Pro Tools 2020.1

Quote:
Originally Posted by TNM View Post
This is what I mean.. don't always think the grass is greener.

Tell me, would you like your playhead to be out of time with your audio, so what you see is not in time with what you hear?

That's precisely what happens in Ableton, always, and including V10 (10.1.5 was the last time I tested it).

You could have an 100 track project. Just one latent effect, ANYWHERE, on ANY track, will put the whole DAW out of sync visually. PT not only keeps perfect visual sync but also automation and has perfect ADC (other than the minor limitation that it should be a bit larger buffer just to cater for those very few plugin exceptions).

Live IS a toy.. now that's the very definition of a toy, that has never taken editing or pro users seriously. It's absolute and utter rubbish if we are still dealing with ADC issues in 2020.. ones that ableton have known about for, oh, 15 YEARS!

Solution? Use ONLY zero latency plugins in live, so your playback cursor can always be in time with your audio.. Or add just one linear phase EQ somewhere (for example), or mix with UAD, and watch the playhead pass over the start of the audio and there's no sound till a second later. I can't find the right emoticon here for the LOLZ but trust me I'm in hysterics that this still even happens.

WOW, avid doing folder tracks just now.. THANKS avid, actually. And for doing it in a way that looks so elegant, in keeping with Pro tool's ground breaking, best workflow GUI of any DAW bar none.

Pro tools is so ahead of live in every area other than the clips which I find counter intuitive and never used anyway, not even when I had Project 5. Live can't hold a candle to PT.

But if there is some super special feature you *really* need from Live, just rewire slave it.

Oh, and Avid released a Catalina working version very fast. I COMMEND them for how fast they were.


Well, I am glad you think you get value for the $399 a year you pay, year in and year out. I sure don't. Avid are nothing but a pale shade of pathetic compared to the Digidesign days. You mustn't do much work with video in Pro Tools... because it's a bit of a disaster, and has been for the most the decade. Not to mention the years of errors associated with costly HDX cards.
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  #128  
Old 01-18-2020, 02:56 AM
noiseboyuk noiseboyuk is offline
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Default Re: Pro Tools 2020.1

Quote:
Originally Posted by seanmccoy View Post
Avid gets bashed the most because of its historical high cost. But I agree, despite its obvious flaws Pro Tools allows for a very professional workflow that I love, and I'm in it for the long haul. I will say that clip bin folders is the missing feature I'd put at the top of the priority list—especially for us post guys. Hope to see that very soon.
Yes, this. I'll swallow the fees as long as they provide features that are best-in-class when they (finally) arrive, like Track Presets. Track Folders is of course decades overdue, but it looks like it will have a better implementation than anyone else when they arrive, and retain backwards compatibility. If they also add folders in the clip bin this year I'll be happy. Next year integrated pitch tools and / or ARA2.
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  #129  
Old 01-18-2020, 03:20 AM
jasonkalman jasonkalman is offline
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Default Re: Pro Tools 2020.1

Quote:
Originally Posted by LDS View Post
Blaming Avid is probably a good start to fixing the issues with Pro Tools. No other software developer drags their feet as much. Ableton released a working version within days of Catalina being released. RME did the same with drivers. Avid, on the other hand? They are only just implementing folder tracks... one of the most requested features on idea scale from a decade ago(?).

Blaming Apple for Avid's mess is the easy way out, I think. People buy MTRX interfaces because they consolidate half a dozen devices into one. Comprehensive I/O. Mic Preamps. The ability to split a single interface between two HDX systems. Monitor Controller, and dedicated DSP speaker processing. A rack processing unit would do the opposite. Adopting a new OS of any kind, does the opposite. Who is going to port all of the plugins? Who is going to provide the sound librarian software? Who is going to provide the audio repair tools? Who is going to provide the monitor calibration software?

There really is no easy way to get around the issue, short of creating another fifty issues in the process. It would be easier to just pull the pin on Apple altogether and stick with PC.
LDS,
Don't get me wrong, I do place much of the blame on AVID, I just took a break for a couple of posts
But I think you might be on to something. Perhaps if they drop support for Apple/Mac, they can focus their Mac OS compatibility resources elsewhere, like getting us features into Pro Tools that we actually want in a timely manner. I would gladly purchase a PC if they did this. I have no love for Mac, even though I've been using them for a long time. These annual OS updates are not only bad for AVID, but they wreak havoc across the audio software world. AVID just takes longer to get compatibility than most. Although TNM is right in that at least AVID gave us preliminary Catalina compatibility relatively quickly. I still won't go near Catalina at the moment.

As far as the $399 annual subscription, I do agree that is expensive given the dearth of updates we've gotten. I am all for AVID going back to the old model of only charging for major updates every 2-3 years vice charging $399 for nominal updates every year. But the good news is the market will eventually sort this out. UA just announced a free DAW, LUNA v1.0, which will, among other developments and an ever evolving market, force AVID to stop price gouging their customers.

Not to ramble on, so I'll keep this short. The real issue with AVID is at the top. The day-to-day software/hardware engineer want to do the right thing. The greedy suits at the top are only worried about one thing: Profit. The couldn't care less about the quality of their product as long as it makes them money. Why the CEO gets paid over 5M when his company charges so much for so little is borderline criminal and has turned so many long time customers away from Pro Tools. Not to mention, the future generation of audio engineers can't afford Pro Tools so they aren't even using it. If an entire generation of audio engineers and musicians are growing up making music without Pro Tools, once the older generation of users retires, AVID will either evolve or die.
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Last edited by jasonkalman; 01-18-2020 at 03:36 AM.
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  #130  
Old 01-18-2020, 08:49 AM
capt kirk capt kirk is offline
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Default Re: Pro Tools 2020.1

Personally, i think they should do the opposite...get rid of support for Windows, and use freed up resources to focus on MAC compatibility, or just build out a LINUX blackbox...the problems began when they opened up the windows bad karma....
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