Cheap upmixing:)

[the19thbear]

Hi. I have made a trailer, in stereo that needs to be played at a an expo in 5.1
The expo and the people i work for would like to keep it cheap and simple, and agreed that they just want equal sound in all speakers. Currently I have no way to test the outcome on a real 5.1 setup.

So i'm wondering how to go about this without a HD license (I only have a NON HD pro tools license) as well?

I plan on exporting as discrete files (L, R, C, LFE, Ls, Rs). So saving the audio to something like "projectname_01_L" etc

So i'm planning to do it like this:

Copy the same stereo file 4 times.

So i'll have the first stereo track. I'll split that to mono, apply a 80hz lowcut and save each as L and R.

Then i'll take the next stereo file, split that to mono, apply a 80hz lowcut and save the first mono as C. The other file i will apply a 80hz high cut and save as LFE

Then i'll take the next stereo file, split that into mono, apply a 80hz lowcut to both files and save them as Ls/Rs.

So now it should play out of all speakers equally, right? Except I dont remember how a 5.1 is calibrated. The center is about 3 dbs lower than the L R, and the rear speakers are 6 dbs lower?
Mehhhh.

Thanks

[MatzeHD]

Sorry this is unprofessional!

Upmixing from Stereo is in the most cases very bad!

Try to get a Demo License from Waves 360 Bundle, here is a Upmixer Plugin included or a other Plugin is the IOSONO Anymix, this is ok for this!
After upmixing you have not a good Stereo backward compatible, try to include a Stereo Audio Track too in the videostream or whatever.

If you have no Plugins, try this manual way:

For Surround use L-R with a mixing Plugin, this is the Side Signal. This is Mono but will not including any L+R Signals (M Signal) You can make a little Pseudo Stereo from this, if you use a Flanger or Chorus Plugin with a little Reverb, after this it sounds not bad!

For the Front, the best way is you use no Center Signal and only Left and Right with the Original Stereo Track. If you want to you use a Center, then make the L+R and mix this to the Center Speaker quieter 3-6 dB or more . May be it works, but its not so good. Sub Channel is ok, you can transfer some dB in the Protools 5.1 Mixer to the Sub Channel.

The best way to make a reasonably Upmix from a Stereo Source is a Dolby Surround Decoder Plugin like MINNETONKA, this have many more Switches like dominance recognition, DP1 or DP2 Decoding and Bass Managments to extract a Stereo file and after this you can edited and remastered with more effects the separated channels!

Regards

[Drew Mazurek]

http://www.nugenaudio.com/halo-upmix...-aax-au-vst_52

[tom_lowe]

Originally Posted by MatzeHD

Sorry this is unprofessional!

Upmixing from Stereo is in the most cases very bad!

Try to get a Demo License from Waves 360 Bundle, here is a Upmixer Plugin included or a other Plugin is the IOSONO Anymix, this is ok for this!
After upmixing you have not a good Stereo backward compatible, try to include a Stereo Audio Track too in the videostream or whatever.

If you have no Plugins, try this manual way:

For Surround use L-R with a mixing Plugin, this is the Side Signal. This is Mono but will not including any L+R Signals (M Signal) You can make a little Pseudo Stereo from this, if you use a Flanger or Chorus Plugin with a little Reverb, after this it sounds not bad!

For the Front, the best way is you use no Center Signal and only Left and Right with the Original Stereo Track. If you want to you use a Center, then make the L+R and mix this to the Center Speaker quieter 3-6 dB or more . May be it works, but its not so good. Sub Channel is ok, you can transfer some dB in the Protools 5.1 Mixer to the Sub Channel.

The best way to make a reasonably Upmix from a Stereo Source is a Dolby Surround Decoder Plugin like MINNETONKA, this have many more Switches like dominance recognition, DP1 or DP2 Decoding and Bass Managments to extract a Stereo file and after this you can edited and remastered with more effects the separated channels!

Regards

The Waves upmixers are horrible apart from the DTS Neural ones. Anymix pro has horrible artefacts.

Anyway, it's a moot point as the OP doesn't have Pro Tools HD. Please elaborate as to why upmixing content is unprofessional?

It's a very common procedure these days and with the right tools you can get fantastic results. Upmixing using old Dolby ProLogic decoders is certainly unprofessional though.

With Halo you can get a stereo downmix which is identical to the original material.

[MatzeHD]

I don't know Halo yet, but i know many other upmixing algorithm and they all not good and only a makeshift. IMO, Prologic is still the best way to seperate the channels and after this to edit with more other effects!
Prologic 1 has the best(!!!) channel isolation from Center to Surrounds, Fronts to Surround and so on, but with Monaural Surround. Prologic 2 has Stereo Surrounds, but the channel isolation is poorer than in Prologic 1. Center channel is slight inverted mixed to the Surrounds and some other things more.
Dolby Decoders has many good "ideas" inside and this works best for me.

Ok, i forgot the guy has no Protools HD, but he make my manual workflow on the normal version too, he must filtered the Sub manualy. I think, to mix only the L-R Signal to the Surrounds sounds better, as if you simple mix the Stereo Signal to the Surrounds too, this is very cheap and sounds muddy with a very bad channel isolation. I can not all explain, because my english is too bad!

I want to try out Halo sometimes but I believe not, that this Plugin is a big new invention for Upmixing Stereo Source and very much better as some other algorithm. This is the problem, you have only 2 channels, you can not make from this a good stable 5.1 upmix that sounds like a native 5.1 mix.

I would be pleasure if someone has a Halo upmixing test for me from a Stereosource to compare that!

Best regards!

[Reckless Erik]

Halo. The best up mix I have heard. Bought it and haven't look back since. Waves is not good I´m afraid.

[Henchman]

The Waves upmixer is the worst sounding one I've heard.

[Sonny Keyes]

I really like Halo as well. Also, there is a Demo of it, but I can't remember whether it's disabled in some way, or just time-limited:

https://www.nugenaudio.com/account.p...x&act=download

[Meads]

Originally Posted by Sonny Keyes

I really like Halo as well. Also, there is a Demo of it, but I can't remember whether it's disabled in some way, or just time-limited:

https://www.nugenaudio.com/account.p...x&act=download

I just recently did a little upmixer shootout, so I know the Halo demo is not feature limited. Usually I use Penteo 7 Pro, and I couldn't find anything Halo does better (except for GUI), so I couldn't justify buying it.
If you're in need I don't think you can go wrong with either one. After setting up and tweaking both they pretty much sounded the same.

[mgoorevich]

Originally Posted by tom_lowe

... Anymix pro has horrible artefacts.

I disagree. Before the Halo went out, I heavily relied on Anymix Pro. You need to tweak it a bit but I mixed plenty of music stems with it. Don't forget that alternatives to the Anymix Pro (at that time) was either UP226 or discontinued TC Unwrap TDM only.
I speak only about the music upmixing here however Halo is good on BG's and even whole mixes.