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  #251  
Old 03-30-2020, 11:19 AM
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cmbourget cmbourget is offline
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Default Re: Come On 20.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DorianBloom View Post
Interesting replies. Yes the ecosystem is the attractive thing. I have a slate Raven (which works best with PT IMO) and would look to get an HDX system in the near future. Having the extra processing power is attractive to me.

One of the main things i like about pro tools is - automation features. this is really where it is at for me. That and audio editing, two things that pro tools does better than pretty much anything.
However, if i want those automation features, i absolutely have to get pro tools ultimate. So its quite a commitment straight away.
If i could use vanilla for a while, see if i can get into a flow with it and then upgrade i would feel a little easier about it.


One of my main concerns at the moment is latency and PDC. I have had so many issues with channels going out fo time when i change oversampling settings, bounces/commit printing out of time.
Running parallel comps that have oversampling/lookahead has been problematic. I feel if all of these things were non issues, i would just pull the plug regardless.


You know, i think this is probably what is taking all the time with folder tracks. They may have had difficulties with PDC. Pure speculation of course.


Really appreciate the advice anyway guys. I was a hardcore PT addict for 15 years, it still feels like home.

I agree with the comments that each DAW has strengths, you will never find one to do everything. Reaper comes close to that but the truth is, the pro tools workflow/organisation/efficiency of tools is hard to beat.
Cubase, "Vanilla" version of Nuendo, has all the possible automation of Pro Tools HD.
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Last edited by cmbourget; 03-30-2020 at 11:22 AM. Reason: Handling error.
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  #252  
Old 03-30-2020, 11:39 AM
Tobias Eichelberg Tobias Eichelberg is offline
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Default Re: Come On 20.

I'll also join the chorus here - after some 24 years of working with Pro Tools I've never been more sceptical of the way AVID conducts business as today. As long as my HDX system will run, I'm likely to stay with Pro Tools, but the cost of running an additional license for remote recording purposes is beginning to get intolerable. For nothing in return, really.

I (and not only I) will take a long hard look into alternatives. Logic X would not be one for me, but Cubase would. And Sequoia might be, although its workflow is a bit cumbersome for pop music. And we'll soon see what UA can put together.
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  #253  
Old 03-30-2020, 11:59 AM
DorianBloom DorianBloom is offline
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Default Re: Come On 20.

Thanks for all the advice guys. Its good to have an honest look at this. From an outsider (i left PT some time ago and have been through a number including S1 and Reaper) i have to say the price scheme looks really quite shocking.
They are still charging for voices? OK. You can't have automation features unless you pay 80 bucks a month for Ultimate? Ok


Even after all this, many of us would pay, if the software was absolutely robust and solid, and the company was commited to furthering development.
Coming over from the reaper forum (where i have spent a lot of time in the last year) i notice a huge difference.
On reaper forum, people are excited, discussing new ways of using new features. Everyone is shocked that Justin and his small team can put updates out every month. Even the small number updates often have new features like ARA, automation items etc.
Then there are people making add ons, scripts etc. My point is that the mood is one of optimism and gratitude, along with excitement.


On the PT forum i would say 80% of posts are people very upset with Avid for multiplying cost whilst still not delivering things promised literally years ago.
As someone who really wants to get back into PT i find this a red flag.
Another red flag - on their site avid has an entire page about folder tracks.
Folder tracks? If that is such a huge deal, i am worried.


I suppose in my mind i have soe romantic idea about a rock solid HDX system. I would love to have lots of power and to be able to run a bunch of plugins and do a big mix with low low latency.


But so far, i have spent hours and hours trying to bounce a kick drum channel with some parallel aux tracks in time. It seems anything with oversampling or latency is problematic. So i am wondering, if this is how it is now...how will it be when i am running HD plugs alongside?


I have hope that maybe the reason folder tracks are taking so long is that they are ironing all this stuff out. After all, if aux tracks are a problem when it comes to latency, folder tracks would be too. Particularly if you have folders in folders etc.


Cubase looks great. Truth is most of them are very good at a number of things.
For em, i already own S1 and would use that -IF it had all the automation features. For writing and production it is top of the pile. But for the professional automation features it is lacking.


So in the end, if i can't make it work with PT, i will likely end up in Reaper.
It can feel very clunky at first, and you have to put time in...but it can do anything you need.
Thankfully i have already invested some time and my setup in Reaper now is extremely powerful.


Either way, by the end of the week i want to finally pick one and stick with it, as i am tired of jumping around.
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  #254  
Old 03-30-2020, 12:17 PM
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cmbourget cmbourget is offline
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Default Re: Come On 20.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Akiz View Post
The short answer....NO. Maybe the worst period ever...

Most of our clients do not care what platform we use, they care for the best possible result, in time and at the best price. This is the new reality. It is something you have to consider...

Cheers!
+ 1
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  #255  
Old 03-30-2020, 12:30 PM
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cmbourget cmbourget is offline
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Default Re: Come On 20.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tobias Eichelberg View Post
I'll also join the chorus here - after some 24 years of working with Pro Tools I've never been more sceptical of the way AVID conducts business as today. As long as my HDX system will run, I'm likely to stay with Pro Tools, but the cost of running an additional license for remote recording purposes is beginning to get intolerable. For nothing in return, really.

I (and not only I) will take a long hard look into alternatives. Logic X would not be one for me, but Cubase would. And Sequoia might be, although its workflow is a bit cumbersome for pop music. And we'll soon see what UA can put together.
A user of the early days, like you, who says that, it's very believable. The biggest problem is not the slowness of PT for development, even if it is annoying and we feel an underground lie at the marketing level. This is the overall cost of the products against their real value. Avid has turned his head with the industry side. He saw all his clients with large wallets, forgetting small SMEs. Well they will leave in large numbers, year after year. I'm sometimes reader of Steinberg, Magix and other forums, and nowhere is the criticism powerful and numerous like here. I have worked in many large companies, and the Avid case remains a mystery. How can she accept all this often very harsh criticism without moving?
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  #256  
Old 03-30-2020, 12:41 PM
XJENSEN XJENSEN is offline
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Default Re: Come On 20.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DorianBloom View Post
I have hope that maybe the reason folder tracks are taking so long is that they are ironing all this stuff out. After all, if aux tracks are a problem when it comes to latency, folder tracks would be too. Particularly if you have folders in folders etc.
This could be spot on.

For me, solving all the latency, audio and MIDI delay compensation issues should be on the top of their list.
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  #257  
Old 03-30-2020, 01:03 PM
DorianBloom DorianBloom is offline
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Default Re: Come On 20.

Quote:
Originally Posted by XJENSEN View Post
This could be spot on.

For me, solving all the latency, audio and MIDI delay compensation issues should be on the top of their list.



Totally agree. For me, the whole reason to have pro tools is its been around forever, it is rock solid and totally dependable. Most of us are happy to pay a reaosnable amount for that.
But charging a massive amount and NOT offering those things....that is really challenging for me.
Like, do i really want to pay 80 bucks a month for a system less stable than my 200 bucks Reaper setup?


And agree with earlier posts - other forums are not full of this kind of disappointment. I try carefully not to just be another whinger going on and on about Avid. but their business practices are sketchy at best.



I can only hope they release their folder track update in the next month as that is when my PT Ultimate trial is up.
If i cannot solve this problem of aux/latency/PDC/rendering, i think it would be malpractise for me to come to a system that does not handle these things well.
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  #258  
Old 03-30-2020, 02:22 PM
Akiz Akiz is offline
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Default Re: Come On 20.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cmbourget View Post
.....nowhere is the criticism powerful and numerous like here. I have worked in many large companies, and the Avid case remains a mystery. How can she accept all this often very harsh criticism without moving?
Last year i was working on a project with the client next to me.
While mixing, Pro Tools started a -9173 error fest. The client asked what i did wrong? I said nothing, this is Pro Tools behaving weird and talk him about Avid. He said to me...."You pay an Annual fee to that company that releases a crap product like this one?"
You can imagine how embarrassing that is, because the engineer looks like a fool. It was not the first time that happened though...happened when i worked alone and with my partner too. Checking the forum, we saw that many other users suffered from the same behavior without any real fix.
(Of course the Mac Pro, MacOs and Pro Tools version, were all absolutely compatible with Avid's compatibility chart.)

We couldn't finish the session and quit. I stayed all night up, to move the session to Studio One, importing tracks, copying the plugin settings etc.

With the same audio, the exact same plugins and settings, the session was running flawless. Next day we continued working without a single glitch.
The client was happy with the results and work done.

Now, how someone cannot be harsh against Avid when the """Industry Standard""" DAW is broken and you have payed for it in advance? Ridiculous.....


Cheers!
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  #259  
Old 03-30-2020, 02:56 PM
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gonsdeejay gonsdeejay is offline
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Default Re: Come On 20.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Akiz View Post
Last year i was working on a project with the client next to me.
While mixing, Pro Tools started a -9173 error fest. The client asked what i did wrong? I said nothing, this is Pro Tools behaving weird and talk him about Avid. He said to me...."You pay an Annual fee to that company that releases a crap product like this one?"
You can imagine how embarrassing that is, because the engineer looks like a fool. It was not the first time that happened though...happened when i worked alone and with my partner too. Checking the forum, we saw that many other users suffered from the same behavior without any real fix.
(Of course the Mac Pro, MacOs and Pro Tools version, were all absolutely compatible with Avid's compatibility chart.)

We couldn't finish the session and quit. I stayed all night up, to move the session to Studio One, importing tracks, copying the plugin settings etc.

With the same audio, the exact same plugins and settings, the session was running flawless. Next day we continued working without a single glitch.
The client was happy with the results and work done.

Now, how someone cannot be harsh against Avid when the """Industry Standard""" DAW is broken and you have payed for it in advance? Ridiculous.....


Cheers!
Try to get 2019.12

I'm on PC, Because My Two Macs are so death.

To me Right Now Works way better than Mac and I say this just by all things I read here almost every day. That Mojave has been a pain for many people.
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  #260  
Old 03-30-2020, 03:23 PM
toolz toolz is offline
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Default Re: Come On 20.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DorianBloom View Post


And agree with earlier posts - other forums are not full of this kind of disappointment. I try carefully not to just be another whinger going on and on about Avid. but their business practices are sketchy at best.
+1

Everything about Avid and Pro Tools software is a disappointment, and after 23 years as a user, have decided just to let my Ultimate update plan expire in 30 days time. Partly due to the crisis, the studio biz it tough at the best of times... but mainly the model.

The subscription model is a complete farce. This forum is a depressing place, and somewhere I come when things don't work., never for pleasure. (yes, I know.. I've removed all 3rd party plugins)

Over and out...
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