Will SD mix levels change in the DTV era?

[Johnny2Laps]

In the past, generally speaking, mixing for HD in 5.1, the peaks have been allowed to be much higher than the SD, stereo version of the same show. Will we start having more freedom with peaks on SD only shows with digital broadcast? Will specs change from what they've been the last few years?

[infiniteloop]

you would hope so, wouldn't you? my guess is that it won't for many years. which is a shame.

[irwinmfletcher]

This was just posted on Yahoo....kind of relevant don't you think?
http://news.yahoo.com/s/mcclatchy/32...dj4rvf8351fNdF

[Extreme Mixing]

I wish the volume wars would go away in music production, myself.

Commercials are too loud. The shows are fine.

Steve

[Postman]

You could argue that the shows are soft! Whatever, restricted dynamic range is not a function of digital or analog, it is a function of home viewing. Noisy home surroundings will not change at all, no matter how big the screens get. If anything our homes will continue to get more noisy. I am bothered by a current trend to mix for broadcast as if the audience is captive in a quiet full range surround home theater. The vast majority of people still listen through little speakers in their sets, in mono and stereo. A separate path for SD viewers will go away, all viewers will eventually see the same feed, the HD/surround version. Their sets or settop box will downmix 5.1 to stereo. Very few of them will have quiet sound treated areas. Not that much has changed, or will change, in terms of what is best for casual viewing.

I am really, really bothered at the increasing amount of dialog that is inaudible as we watch in our city apartment, through our big TV. Some shows have such heavily noise-reduced dialog that the quality is gone (artifacty water-y), the low end jumps around from word to word (as the expanders pump), and syllables and words disappear regularly. At least we can hit the Tivo rewind button enough times to figure out what was said, but it is distracting. It is getting worse, not better, because it is easier to mix wide dialog dynamics and hide behind a hopeful excuse that digital TV makes it okay. It doesn't.

And, people are rapidly switching to watching on their laptops instead of a traditional broadcast. I don't know about theirs, but my laptops sound like crap and I don't even turn them up as loud as the TV.

And then there is the 10 db difference between the show dialog and the commercials, but that is off topic.

My cents.

[CLee]

I wouldn't want to be listening in some market where the show is broadcasting with an extra 10db of dynamic range, but the station never took all the limiters out of the signal chain

As far as commercials go, make 'em mix to the same LM100 specs the shows do.

[Postman]

FX, TNT, AMC first come to mind.

The big 4 (NBC, ABC, CBS, FOX) are now running around assuring congress that they have the situation well under control, with all new regulations and solutions that will solve all of our problems by this fall.

I really don't believe government should be regulating this nonsense, but I also cannot believe we've come this far without some better self control. I mean its been years and years and years, and getting worse.

Sorry, I'm cranky about it and I've hijacked the thread. Double sorry.

[Chief Technician]

Originally Posted by Postman

The big 4 (NBC, ABC, CBS, FOX) are now running around assuring congress that they have the situation well under control, with all new regulations and solutions that will solve all of our problems by this fall.

Which is, in essence, proof that they do not have the situation well under control. It might be under control for their programs, but it is not under control for commercials.

I really don't believe government should be regulating this nonsense

The government does not need to legislate this. All they need to do is have the FCC impose dialnorm requirements on commercials that networks broadcast. They also need to enforce the consequences of not transmitting dialnorm metadata. I have heard several tales of a broadcast company (name withheld to protect the non-innocent) intentionally setting dialnorm at -31 so that they become the loudest network.

[philper]

As picture quality increases (or gets sharper anyway) I see audio quality decreasing. My kids just don't care--they listen to everything on terrible PC speakers, a laptop, a phone. The highest fi listening environment they encounter regularly is the sound system in a car. Anyone here old enough to remember when going and listening to a project through a car stereo was a test for the LOW end of the playback quality range? When I mix video etc sound tracks anymore, I figure that the mix will have to work (ie have intelligible dialog and at least the most dramatic music moments effective) up and down the whole range--hifi Sundance festival-style 5.1 theatrical to overdriven speaker on a cel-phone with a dying battery. For almost all of what I do, this is the reality now. I agree totally that home listening of TV audio will become more chaotic, and all TV mixes better work pretty well on the very small speakers on people's "kitchen" TV, at least for most shows.

Philip Perkins