Pro Tools 11 HDX Stability, Usability & Performance Increase from a Plug-In Focus

[Drew Mazurek]

Originally Posted by mesaone

Upsampling schmupsampling. I recorded at 48 kHz, and it returns at the same.

I guess that was directed at me? I was referring to UAD plugs in response to a specific post. And yes, the upsampling matters.

[albee1952]

FWIW, I just learned a trick this week regarding UAD plugins. At the lower left of any UAD plugin, there is a small red microphone symbol. Clicking on it puts the plugin in "live' mode, which cuts the latency a whole lot(like from 1100+ samples, to under 100). Of course, I may have been the only user to NOT know that

[Bill Denton]

Originally Posted by albee1952

FWIW, I just learned a trick this week regarding UAD plugins. At the lower left of any UAD plugin, there is a small red microphone symbol. Clicking on it puts the plugin in "live' mode, which cuts the latency a whole lot(like from 1100+ samples, to under 100). Of course, I may have been the only user to NOT know that

But, as we both know, there ain't no free lunch...the "live" mode has lower quality than does the "normal" mode...okay for a headphone mix, not so good for recording...

[treason]

Originally Posted by propower

Great write up !!

Questions though....

1) You reduced (or eliminated) your -9173 occurrences by ... Changing a bunch of high delay native plugins for either DSP or lower delay Native plugins.

So what fixed the problem?? Replacing the Plug ins themselves or the fact they had long delays? Since the delay compensation engine pre-buffers all the playback tracks to compensate for the delays it is not clear how this is a "problem".

2) You noticed a nice reduction in CPU. Again - this is most likely due to changing plugins - not reducing delay. You now have more CPU efficient ones.

- So - regardless- you are solving your problem, which is a very good thing! But the root cause part (IMO) is not clear.

You are correct - sadly, I do not have the ability to put my finger on "the problem" - I'm just aware that I have a problem and am looking for solutions.

In general, it feels that there is an architecture issue with HDX regarding AAX Native plugs. It feels that the AAX Native plugs which incur a large processing delay affect the stability of the system. It also feels that some of the AAX Native plug manufacturers have not applied enough focus on solving the buffer issue, or another way of saying this, that there is no coordinated effort of the users of the AAX Spec to improve that spec for the benefit of its end users (I am purposefully singling out UAD here as I believe there is a solution for their very large delay - heck even a rack for their MKII Pultecs (like the vintage Pultec plug) would give you 3 UAD plugs for the price of 1 trip - there are solutions here, and yes they may be hard - but there are solutions).

Secondly, it appears that there are issues with the AAX-DSP spec (as pointed out by Dave Gamble and other) which further increases the pain for AAX-DSP development above and beyond market size (I'm not saying there isn't a market, i'm simply removing that variable from the discussion for the moment to focus on the technical limitations of AAX-DSP).

So the post was to raise awareness of something that many of us appear to be experiencing. Yes, I substituted plugs and paid attention to the Native/DSP interplay as required by the current architecture. My point is - I should not have to do that in a well architected system. Or rather, all plugs should be available in both Native/DSP format and the system should optimize for me. The point is - Avid's Architecture of AAX has forced me to be aware of and accommodate for their poor implementations of the specification and the marketing/3rd party incentive plan to energize 3rd party AAX-DSP offerings.

Lastly - I wanted to apply focus on the slow turnaround of buffer related issues (which amplifies questions about the architecture more for me). The VI Delay Comp bug was a buffer issue. I believe the 917x issue is also a buffer issue. If I am correct, then Avid must fix the underlying architecture such that it can eliminate these fundamental system requirement errors, or fix them quicker. 6-12 months is too long to fix issues of what I consider table stakes. My congratulations on being relisted was a hope that their focus on their financial situation, and the financial situation issues are behind them and they can get back to restoring their flagship product.

Don't get me wrong - I love my HDX system. It's just a lot of unnecessary work to make it run the way it naturally should.

[dtmprod]

Don't know if this is strictly an HDX challenge, or an ongoing Protools HD problem. I don't have an HDX system, still on TDM with a HD-6 setup with PTHD 10.3.9. But I have learned not to follow TDM plugs with any native ones. Any native ones used need to be before DSP plugs. Seems like mixing native & DSP plugs in the channel chain definitely increases instability challenges.

[Paul B.]

I'm glad this is coming out. I have spent a few hours with Avid Tech support when I moved to HDX, wondering why my whole TDM system was working fine but I had all kind of delay issues with the new HDX system. I couldn't record anything. My record track was off sync with the rest of the music.

Their solution (after 4 hours on the phone), USE LESS PLUGINS!

Since then I cry everyday while using pro tools. I have to bounce my "working" mixes to 1 stereo track, inactivate everyone, turn off delay comp, change the buffer in order to record anything. It drives me nuts. Once it's recorded, same thing the other way around.

Of course my main plugins are the ones you talk about. Ha!

But have you noticed too that if every plugins manufacturer went DSP then we wouldn't have enough HDX DSP power to run our sessions anyway.
They claim HDX is more powerfull but that's only because taking into account all the Native power. Take that away and...

[dtmprod]

Wow, makes me feel like I need to hang onto my TDM system for awhile longer. Was looking at a UAD system as a possible addition. But seeing the induced latency with their plugins has convinced me to just upgrade my puter. Transforming my 2009 Mac Pro into a 2010 with a 3.46 12 core. Maybe I can sit tight for awhile til Avid sorts this all out….