Foldback Mix: Vocal Pitch -vs- Headphones.

[_Dova_]

When I record vocals (ie, singing along to the headphone mix) my pitch sounds correct. Then when I listen to the same track thru the studio monitors, my pitch is slightly off. I don't fully understand the 'why' of this.

My scratch vocals are sung into a Shure 57 with the studio monitors volume cracked way up, without any pitch problems. Well its now time to actually track vocals, and I am already dreading it.

Some time ago, an engineer told me to use the Foldback Mix method. I only have a vague recollection of how it works.

Can anyone explain the pitch variance due to headphones, how a foldback mix works?

....Or if you have any other solutions.

[evaclear]

Hi Dova,

This problem you have is quite common. 2 good ways to combat are:

1) Try recording with one of your headphones half off the ear so you can hear your vocals in relation to the track and organically. Headphones give you a very different perception of sound and space, which can result in pitch issues. So, effectively in recording this way, you give yourself 75% track and 25% natural reference. (You'll find this will almost certainly work).

2) Record/monitor low (loud enough to get some vibe of course). When you turn this up, your intonation (tuning) will be the first thing to go. This is a fact, and a very common mistake!! Even when tracking heavy guitars if you get excited and monitor at volume 11 you run the risk of not hearing an out of tune string...until the morning after I've done it!!!

hope this helps.

[KingFish]

Re: Foldback Mix...

He May? have been talking about a technique whereas the mix is played back out of phase across 2 monitors, and the mic's null spot, placed in the center, where the phase is cancelled the most.

I've heard, and read of this, never tried it, and am skeptical on it's effectiveness, not only for isolation, but for performance / intonation.

ever sat in the center of something completely out of phase ?? not very inspiring ! Likely make you sea sick after a while.

[_Dova_]

I appreciate the feedback.

Yeah the 'Headphone Half-Off' method is the how I usually track vocals. This is what I am dreading.
I would rather be 'in' the mix instead of singing over a mono version of it coming thru 1 1/2 ears. Since I don't have an build-in iso in my attic studio, I have to setup a makeshift iso and test the space.

Deep down I know the 'Half-off' method is probably the best (since that is the standard), but I am willing to try the alternative to know for sure.

FOLDBACK.
I have asked around, but I cannot find anyone who has attempted it. Did some research online on this technique, and I DECIDED TO GO AHEAD AND TRY IT OUT.

I will let you know how it goes.....

[guy.fi]

check this out

http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/1995...ocalstips.html

[lemix]

Dova,
I've many experiences of what you just described.
Try these options, as they were working for me:
-use moderate levels in the cans, with enough band to sing with
-turn off reverbs on the vocal for the singer
-possibly lay down a guide melody with a keyboard/guitar that he/she can reference to

*just my opinion of course*
OH, the word "foldback" is nothing more than cuemix/headphone mix..in my experience
good luck,

[tempest18]

I understand what you're saying though.

After you've recorded a take and play it back through the headphones, it sounds spot on.

You play it back through your monitors and the vocal has pitch issues.

It seems like the headphones cancel out the pitch issues. This happens to me regardless of how I record. Its when I'm playing the track back through the headphones.

No idea of the cause.

Thanks

Chris Tempest

[Bob Legs]

I find using expensive headphones with a good response gives you an edge,
no "hifi" store bought headphones are appropriate because of their freq response and EQ.
akg 270 are really good, i can switch between my mackies and back and theres no huge ear shift which is what you want.

make sense ?

[Greg B]

If the resulting pitch is flat, but you know you got it when you sang it, the headphones are too loud. It's the doppler effect. As something gets louder, the pitch gets sharper (except the pitch actually never changed!).

If I have a singer (like me) who is below pitch by a consistent amount, I'll turn down the headphones, and then try and go with the vocal as low as possible in the headphones to elicit a sharp or on pitch performance.