Avid Pro Audio Community

Avid Pro Audio Community

How to Join & Post  •  Community Terms of Use  •  Help Us Help You

Knowledge Base Search  •  Community Search  •  Learn & Support


Avid Home Page

Go Back   Avid Pro Audio Community > Pro Tools Software > Tips & Tricks

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #1  
Old 06-21-2002, 10:17 AM
tzujan tzujan is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 149
Default Vocal production - Breaths, Reverbs, EQ & Compression

After searching the DUC I have found a wonderful amount of info on doubling/tripling lead vocals and building stacks. There are a couple of areas that I am not to sure of.

1> What do you do with the breaths? Typically with the lead vocal I automate them down but don't get rid of them all together. In the background parts I get rid of the breaths all together. I am lost as far as what to do with the doubles and triples.

2> I know this can be a stylistic thing but how does your reverb/eq/compression setting on the lead compare to the reverb/eq/compression setting on the double/triple. Do you use same or similar settings? How about the the lead reverb/eq/compression vs backgrounds?
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 06-21-2002, 11:15 AM
doug_hti doug_hti is offline
Member
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Calabasas, CA
Posts: 669
Default Re: Vocal production - Breaths, Reverbs, EQ & Compression

I'm coming into this saying that this is completely a sytlistic thing and opinion.
But how I typically deal with stacks, (which I do quite often) can vary from song to song.
Say it's a lead stack triple...I'll widen (pan) the 2 and 3 vocal to an equal amount (maybe 50% or each side) and put the first one up the middle, experiment to figure what sounds best depending on where everything else is at in the song. If you have other Background Vocal stacks, then I widen the backgrounds All the way...The panning and how well the stacks are lined up with each other is a huge of the magic you get and how tight things sound.

As for dynamics, I do put a little more compression/limiting on backgrounds/stacks only to control the levels and make them more equal. I'm not doing it for a particular sound. On a typical compressor, I usually set it up to be more like a limiter. High threshhold, and hi ratio (like 7:1)...and pretty fast attack....

For effects and to get the stacks to sit in. I will rarely put reverb on them unless i have a huge predelay and it's subtle. The trick that has always worked for me is to use a delay timed to either a 1/8note or 1/4 note...with about a 20% feedback.
I put all my effects on their seperate aux tracks (a short delay (1/4 or 1/8), long delay (1/2note), pitch widener, reverb) and just use my sends. For some reason I think it sounds better instead of sticking on the direct track and reducing the mix level, but that's just me. I also visually have easier automation and can share the effects.
On another aux track, sometimes I put a pitch changer on it (DPP-1)...I usually put it up 9 or 10 cents and down 9 cents and a little delay on it. I don't put very much on it...never enough to deliberately notice.
With delays, I usually (when the music is playing)...I put up the delay until i can noticeably hear it and then pull it back a few db, to where I can't hear it. If done right, this can really fill out your mix without mudding it up.
I'll use 1/2 note delays on some tails and echo effects, but rarely ever just stick up to some point...
As far as EQ, I almost always put a little top end for air (like 10k or 12k) maybe 3-5 db. Sometimes I put a little bit of 4-6k by one or two dbs. And then many times if it's a heavy mix, I pull back a couple db anywhere from 150-275hz. Maybe it's pychological, but it feels like I'm get more definition in the vocals and in the instruments.
Hope some of these opinions help
__________________
Doug
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 06-21-2002, 02:41 PM
tzujan tzujan is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 149
Default Re: Vocal production - Breaths, Reverbs, EQ & Compression

Doug,

Thank you for your input! What do you do with the breaths? I am finding that I like them in but down on on the double/triple tracks as long as they line up with original breath.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 06-21-2002, 03:00 PM
timcissell timcissell is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Richardson,TX, USA
Posts: 109
Default Re: Vocal production - Breaths, Reverbs, EQ & Compression

Depending on the skill level of your singers and the amount of time you have to kill, you can go nuts in PTs dipping the breaths and tightening the BGVs.

If you have six tracks of BGVs... a three pt chord, stacked... you can really move around and chop up the BGVs before it becomes appearant.

With many BGV parts, you can absolutely chop up the ends of words (creating new edit regions) which when slid around to match the end of the LV or the other BGVs give a nice, tight end to the BGV parts. (Like "t"s and "s"s).

The entrances can be moved around too. And once all the parts are starting and ending at the same time... well it sounds almost as good as if they sang it right in the first place!

Nothing beats great singers doing it right! Nothing is faster either. But in a pinch, you can really make vocal parts sound better by starting them and ending them all at the same time as a first step!
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 06-21-2002, 04:52 PM
doug_hti doug_hti is offline
Member
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Calabasas, CA
Posts: 669
Default Re: Vocal production - Breaths, Reverbs, EQ & Compression

yeah, i usually leave the breaths in on leads if there is a defined single lead part and especially at the begining of phrases to help create some sort of "lead in/pick up". It really matters as to what sounds more natural. I do take out breaths or drastically reduce the levels in the middle of phrases or in places where there is not a lot of open space.
I automate the volume of the breaths for a "natural" level, not too quiet, not too loud, and I DO usually take out breaths on bgvs....i usually make bgvs as clean as possible...and especially when your doing really "airy" bgvs, i tend to think of them as an instrument or a pad as much as anything.
__________________
Doug
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 06-21-2002, 09:50 PM
Alécio Costa's Avatar
Alécio Costa Alécio Costa is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Florianópolis, Magic Island - Brazil
Posts: 2,835
Default Re: Vocal production - Breaths, Reverbs, EQ & Compression

heavy hreaths I do fade-ins or reduce them by 50%. ON BGV I try to make them tight as possible, syincing "s" especially, cutting from some tracks also if needed.

A stereo Chorus might help also, a little pitch shift and soemtimes doubled voice with pans at 3o´clock pm and 9o´clock.

Soemtimes also, depending om style, a very soft and low volume effect like this:

expander > autopan > flanger> (stereo delay)> very low level long reverb (plate or hall)

i have been able to build a very amazing effect using the SGX2000. I mixed an independent CD for a new band recently and the "big producer" from a major was curious how had I done that... We used it going to the same board, 02R.

The song was played in MTV Brazil.

Alécio Costa
Brazil
__________________
Alécio Costa Studio
High-End e-Mastering & Music Production
www.aleciocosta.com

http://www.facebook.com/alecio.costa

PT HD2 Accel - 10.3.10 OS 10.6.8 - Mac Pro 1,1 16GB RAM and Mac Pro 2,1 GB
Mastering Gear: Pendulum Audio, Crane Song, Avalon, Great River, Sebatron, Sonnox, Izotope, PSP, TC, Fab Filter.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 06-21-2002, 09:56 PM
Alécio Costa's Avatar
Alécio Costa Alécio Costa is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Florianópolis, Magic Island - Brazil
Posts: 2,835
Default Re: Vocal production - Breaths, Reverbs, EQ & Compression

heavy hreaths I do fade-ins or reduce them by 50%. ON BGV I try to make them tight as possible, syincing "s" especially, cutting from some tracks also if needed.

A stereo Chorus might help also, a little pitch shift and soemtimes doubled voice with pans at 3o´clock pm and 9o´clock.

Soemtimes also, depending om style, a very soft and low volume effect like this:

expander > autopan > flanger> (stereo delay)> very low level long reverb (plate or hall)

i have been able to build a very amazing effect using the SGX2000. I mixed an independent CD for a new band recently and the "big producer" from a major was curious how had I done that... We used it going to the same board, 02R.

The song was played in MTV Brazil.

Alécio Costa
Brazil
__________________
Alécio Costa Studio
High-End e-Mastering & Music Production
www.aleciocosta.com

http://www.facebook.com/alecio.costa

PT HD2 Accel - 10.3.10 OS 10.6.8 - Mac Pro 1,1 16GB RAM and Mac Pro 2,1 GB
Mastering Gear: Pendulum Audio, Crane Song, Avalon, Great River, Sebatron, Sonnox, Izotope, PSP, TC, Fab Filter.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 06-21-2002, 10:26 PM
ctmartin ctmartin is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 435
Default Re: Vocal production - Breaths, Reverbs, EQ & Compression

"timcissel"'s reference to the vocalist's abilities is really important. I'm not sure this is *exactly* what you're asking, but depending on the phrase, the BGV's might modify the ending vowel -- and it probably won't be noticed depending on your mix.

For example, the main vocal may end on a hard "e", like "me", and the BGV's might be better doing "e-ah" -- just a slight "ah" at the end so the "e's" don't stack-up too much. Something like this might make the BGV's easier and more natural to sing if they're in a higher register too. These types of decisions rest on the producer & the vocalist(s), and your ability to think of alternatives that stand differently in relation to one another, but work within the context of the vocal nonetheless.

Hope something in there helps...

Peace,
C
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 06-23-2002, 03:37 AM
mdvirtual mdvirtual is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: South Florida
Posts: 139
Default Re: Vocal production - Breaths, Reverbs, EQ & Compression

<<What do you do with the breaths? I am finding that I like them in but down on on the double/triple tracks as long as they line up with original breath.>>

I use a downward expander to reduce breaths by around 8-10 db, so you get enough breathing to keep things sounding natural. The Digi expander/gate works fine for this, or the Drawmer EGL if you want expansion followed by comp.

The trick is to not over-compress during tracking. Compression on the way in emphasizes the breathes, making it hard to find a expander threshold that works without touching the subtle nuances of the vocal. I use the expander as my first plugin, followed by a compressor for serious serious squeezing.
__________________
Michael Damon
Composer/Sound Designer
Virtual Productions

PT HD 12.3.1, i9-9900k, 64GB RAM, Gigabyte Aorus Ultra MB, Sapphire Radeon RX580, Windows 10 Pro (1809), Fireface UFX

PT 12.3.1, MacBook Pro 2.4Ghz Core i5, 8GB RAM, OS 10.10.5 Yosemite
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 06-24-2002, 03:32 AM
Joz Joz is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Los Angeles CA.
Posts: 744
Default Re: Vocal production - Breaths, Reverbs, EQ & Compression

PRINCE!!!
__________________
"I never hit a women with her clothes on!"
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
WTHeck - I heard breaths on a major production YYR123 Pro Tools 10 23 08-21-2012 07:44 PM
Vocal compression help Mattitude Tips & Tricks 14 03-18-2010 02:12 PM
Vocal Compression shendrie 003, Mbox 2, Digi 002, original Mbox, Digi 001 (Mac) 14 10-23-2002 09:03 AM
Vocal reverbs jampater 003, Mbox 2, Digi 002, original Mbox, Digi 001 (Mac) 27 01-01-2002 04:52 PM
Vocal compression Voutsonios 003, Mbox 2, Digi 002, original Mbox, Digi 001 (Win) 1 11-03-2001 11:05 PM


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 02:57 AM.


Powered by: vBulletin, Copyright ©2000 - 2008, Jelsoft Enterprises Limited. Forum Hosted By: URLJet.com