Advice: Apollo 16 + PT12 + new MacPro?

[saspro]

Hello smart people--
I run a pro-ish project studio that keeps quite busy. I run PT8 HD96 x2 Accel (TDM) system on my Mac Pro 3,1 running 10.8.6. Trusty, yet crusty. I need to update to PT12 for various clients.
I need to be able to track 16 analog channels at a time occasionally (live musicians), so low latency and quality AD-DA conversion is key.
I have used ProTools and ProTools hardware since 1994, but the upgrade path is too old that Avid'll treat me like any other newbie schlubb; and since their hardware is too expensive anyway, I’m looking at workarounds with 3rd party interfaces. How does this look:

MacPro (Trashcan)
UAD Apollo 16
UAD-2 QUAD DSP Accelerator
ProTools 12 software

What am I missing? Do I need more DSP?
I don’t see anyone else with this setup, and wondering why.

I'd appreciate any insight. Thank you for your time.

[Darryl Ramm]

Originally Posted by saspro

Hello smart people--
I run a pro-ish project studio that keeps quite busy. I run PT8 HD96 x2 Accel (TDM) system on my Mac Pro 3,1 running 10.8.6. Trusty, yet crusty. I need to update to PT12 for various clients.
I need to be able to track 16 analog channels at a time occasionally (live musicians), so low latency and quality AD-DA conversion is key.
I have used ProTools and ProTools hardware since 1994, but the upgrade path is too old that Avid'll treat me like any other newbie schlubb; and since their hardware is too expensive anyway, I’m looking at workarounds with 3rd party interfaces. How does this look:

MacPro (Trashcan)
UAD Apollo 16
UAD-2 QUAD DSP Accelerator
ProTools 12 software

What am I missing? Do I need more DSP?
I don’t see anyone else with this setup, and wondering why.

I'd appreciate any insight. Thank you for your time.

What Mac Pro? I would be sure to max out the internal SSD storage... And likely use that for primary audio/session storage. How much storage do you need for VI samples?

How much CPU do you think you will need for native plugins and VIs?

Do you have some experience with UAD plugins already? Why do you want them? For use with tracking in the UAD console? Because you like them? I just don't want you assuming you need "DSP" because you come from a TDM system or you thinking a UAD DSP plugin is at all like a TDM plugin, they are not, they are *high-latency* unless used in the interface DSP as a console plugin.

I assume you mean the UAD Satellite Quad Thunderbolt, otherwise you would need a Thunderbolt PCIe chassis for the UAD Quad card.

[saspro]

Originally Posted by Darryl Ramm

What Mac Pro?

The black Trashcan, the ones they started making in late 2013.

I would be sure to max out the internal SSD storage...

Yes, though I may just start with the int PCIe 256 that comes standard and expand later.

And likely use that for primary audio/session storage. How much storage do you need for VI samples?

I think currently they're all housed on a 500GB drive that's in one oof my Mac 3,1 expansion bays. (sigh---I'm gonna miss expansion bays). I'm going to have to invest in at least two external ThBlt drives. I'm old-school and was trained to keep the session data separate from the system drive, and although i hear that's not necessary anymore, I'll probably maintain that practice.

How much CPU do you think you will need for native plugins and VIs?

I'd probably get at least the 6-core. I don't go INSANE with proc'g plugs--average 3 or 4 a track upon final mixing. But I would like to be able to use more VIs without PT choking, which PT 8 currently does.

Do you have some experience with UAD plugins already? Why do you want them? For use with tracking in the UAD console? Because you like them?

The attraction to UA is the 16-ch interace is cheaper and I can get a discount on their plugs. Many of my favorite (non UA) plugs will be gone once I transition from PT8 to PT12.

I just don't want you assuming you need "DSP" because you come from a TDM system or you thinking a UAD DSP plugin is at all like a TDM plugin, they are not, they are *high-latency* unless used in the interface DSP as a console plugin.

Okay, that's what I was curious about. I can do without no-latency plugs during tracking, or possibly use UA's Console App to monitor them with no or low-latency (which I understand it does). I'm probably more concerned with tracking VI (MIDI) with latency.

I assume you mean the UAD Satellite Quad Thunderbolt, otherwise you would need a Thunderbolt PCIe chassis for the UAD Quad card.

Right, thus I'm leaning toward the Quad Thunderbolt. Apparently it's no less robust than the PCIe card. Thanks Darrly RAMM

[Darryl Ramm]

Originally Posted by saspro

The black Trashcan, the ones they started making in late 2013.

Yes, though I may just start with the int PCIe 256 that comes standard and expand later.

Ah no, I'd be buying the largest possible Apple internal SSD you can.

I think currently they're all housed on a 500GB drive that's in one oof my Mac 3,1 expansion bays. (sigh---I'm gonna miss expansion bays). I'm going to have to invest in at least two external ThBlt drives. I'm old-school and was trained to keep the session data separate from the system drive, and although i hear that's not necessary anymore, I'll probably maintain that practice.

That is exactly what I'm suggesting you don't do. If you just need 500GB for samples, start by sticking them on the 1TB internal SSD. You can't touch the aggregate performance on that internal 4 x PCIe 3.0 NVMe drive unless you go to multiple external PCIe SSDs connected with Thunderbolt 2. All easier and likely cheaper to just use the internal drive. Thunderbolt 2 is an embarrassing IO bottleneck to have on such a powerful computer. If you don't *need* this right now I would try to wait for Apple to refresh the Mac Pro with Thunderbolt 3, who knows when this will happen, but it's badly overdue. I suspect Apple are off working out how to do "important" things like build an external keyboard with touch bar. Sigh.

I'd probably get at least the 6-core. I don't go INSANE with proc'g plugs--average 3 or 4 a track upon final mixing. But I would like to be able to use more VIs without PT choking, which PT 8 currently does.
The attraction to UA is the 16-ch interace is cheaper and I can get a discount on their plugs. Many of my favorite (non UA) plugs will be gone once I transition from PT8 to PT12.

If you have not got a good idea already of the UAD plugins that can well replace what you use now that might be something to ask others about that on DUC. You also need to upgrade all your old RTAS VIs to AAX-64 or find alternatives.

Part of the challenge here is you are talking about swapping everything at once, computer, Pro Tools (significant upgrade), all plugins TDM and RTAS, interface, etc. It might be useful to try to find a way to do things a step at a time. Trouble with those options is if you need to move up to Pro Tools HD and HD Native Thunderbolt to keep using your interfaces, and that seems like a waste of money. And you can't use a Thunderbolt UAD Quad or Thunderbolt interface on your old Mac Pro. If you do go UAD I'd certainly not buy the Quad card/Thunderbolt box until you know you need it. A minimal early test might be to put another boot disk on your current Mac Pro cheese grater and play with Pro Tools 12 (just get a months subscription to try?).

Upgrading your current Mac Pro (new CPU(s) if that is an option, max out memory and install SATA or PCIe SSDs) may be an option worth considering, with Pro Tools HD Native (upgrade software and buy a HDN card on EBay). I'd at least scope out doing that until Apple updates the Trashcans.

Okay, that's what I was curious about. I can do without no-latency plugs during tracking, or possibly use UA's Console App to monitor them with no or low-latency (which I understand it does). I'm probably more concerned with tracking VI (MIDI) with latency.

UAD won't help you there at all, that's likely all CPU/VI performance. Pro Tools 12 would likely be an overall help. Certainly you have 64 bit memory support, and track freeze and disk cache to help offset load on the computer.

[Barry Johns]

If you already own and use a bunch of Waves plugins, then I'd suggest going the Digigrid Route. If so, you'll save a ton of money with I/O units as you can buy used 192 I/O's or Apogee AD-DA 16's.

If you already own a bunch of UAD plugging, then the Apollo route makes sense, if you don't own any, yes, they are very good, but they are also very expensive.......

[s.d. finley]

OP, if you are checking out the Apollo and Satellite UA give away, thats a great deal! Certainly the UAD plugs are more expensive, but they- a lot of the new ones- are amazing. Currently UA has an amazing sale going on AND! when you register new UAD products UA is kind enough to give you some plug in vouchers.
I say go for it!! I am still in HD TDM 8.1.1 land using HD5 system and a UA Satellite quad FW. I am still on 10.6.8. How was 10.8.6 ? Or did you swap a couple of digits around?