Suggestions appreciated for getting a video setup off the ground

[jaminjamesp]

After years of doing the normal studio owner/engineering/producing route, I've transitioned in to more commercial projects and doing film and video work (also transitioned in to having money in my bank account).

I scored my first feature this year, which was a blast and also scary as hell for a first timer. The most frustrating part was working with the video engine on my little 27" monitor. Constantly cycling between screens. And just making my sessions laggy and glitchy.

I've got a great spot to mount a large TV/monitor on the wall above my desk.

My questions are (and you'll see how green I am with these)

1. Can I run video in full resolution to a monitor off of my current computer, maybe just didn't have something configured correctly the first time? (see signature for computer specs)
2. If it was possible, I'd like to buy a mac mini or something to run the video engine to leave as much CPU power for processing audio and VIs in Pro Tools, and slave it to my Mac Pro (I hope that doesn't sound stupid )
3. Is there hardware (Avid or otherwise) that easily syncs with Pro Tools to offload video engine work without having to get a second computer?
4. Is there 3rd part software that slaves to Pro Tools that is better than the Avid video engine?
5. Are there any questions I'm not asking that I should be?

Just to be clear, I'm not doing any video editing, only scoring to picture. So thats all my setup will ever be used for.

I'd like to keep my budget less that $3,000 including the purchase of a monitor. Also interested in what size monitor people feel comfortable with mounted in front of them. It will be on the wall about +/- 40 inches from my listening position.

[Dan Smith]

First off congrats! That's an exciting opportunity. You will learn a great deal on your first film. Take advantage of this chance. Everything you've asked has been discussed many times before, but to save you the trouble of searching through and putting the (not always obvious) pieces together yourself, and cause I've got some time to kill, I'll answer to the best of my ability.

1. Can I run video in full resolution to a monitor off of my current computer, maybe just didn't have something configured correctly the first time? (see signature for computer specs)

- Yes. Your computer can run up to 6 monitors. https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT202801 You'll just need adapters from the Thunderbolt ports. (I use this and it works flawlessly:http://a.co/g3w6SlH

You certainly will want multiple screens for your rig. When composing you'll have a lot of windows to keep track of, VIs, Edit, mix, plugins, video etc. (Look into windows configurations if you aren't familiar already.) So multiple screens would be a must. I would at least three (edit/midi, others, video) if not more. Look into the new ultrawide screen displays. They are awesome and worth the money. Monitors tend to last a good long time through multiple computers, so I'd invest in good ones.

2. If it was possible, I'd like to buy a mac mini or something to run the video engine to leave as much CPU power for processing audio and VIs in Pro Tools, and slave it to my Mac Pro (I hope that doesn't sound stupid )

-Not stupid at all. Check out this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I1XpOp5mBGE
I have done this before and while it works, it can feel laggy compared with it running in the same session. This setup will require a second computer and second license of Pro Tools. Pro Tools has abilities to link between multiple machines. You can do some research, it is called Satellite. But that would require having Avid HD interfaces, which I'm guessing you would rather avoid having to purchase and wouldn't easily fit into your budget, But it does perform very, very nicely.

3. Is there hardware (Avid or otherwise) that easily syncs with Pro Tools to offload video engine work without having to get a second computer?

-"Easily" is relative in our world, but to be succinct, no there isn't a simple hardware solution. This is typically achieved by running a separate machine that is dedicated to the task, as you propose.

4. Is there 3rd part software that slaves to Pro Tools that is better than the Avid video engine?

-YES! Check out Video Slave:https://non-lethal-applications.com/.../video-slave-3
It has been gaining traction recently and has good reviews for this very purpose. This is probably your best bet and where I would start. They offer a demo and you can see how much it helps your situation.

5. Are there any questions I'm not asking that I should be?

-All the composers I work with, work within Logic or Cubase, many utilizing Vienna Ensemble. They all still have Pro Tools, but most only use it for prepping and sending their deliverables for the final mix. I only know one that does major work and is only using Pro Tools for his scores. They have some nice features geared toward scoring that might be worth considering, especially if you are using a lot of virtual instruments. As you work on this film you'll learn a lot about what you'd like to have and do in the future. They are most customizable than Pro Tools and perhaps later you'll want to switch. So while this isn't the time to be making a move to another DAW, as you you shortly will need to start putting out a lot of content, I would keep that option in your mind. I wouldn't invest a lot of money into a solution (like a Pro Tools Satellite setup for example) if there is a possibility of you exploring other DAWs. Just a thought.

I'd like to keep my budget less that $3,000 including the purchase of a monitor. Also interested in what size monitor people feel comfortable with mounted in front of them. It will be on the wall about +/- 40 inches from my listening position.

If Video Slave solves your issues, that will be ideal. Then you would come in way under budget. Enough to buy one or two of these guys: http://a.co/4JvnTcD or maybe http://a.co/3SSLiye At that distance perhaps your 27" would work. Then your new monitor(s) on your desk.

Best of luck! Let us know how it works out.

[jaminjamesp]

Originally Posted by Dan Smith

First off congrats! That's an exciting opportunity. You will learn a great deal on your first film. Take advantage of this chance. Everything you've asked has been discussed many times before, but to save you the trouble of searching through and putting the (not always obvious) pieces together yourself, and cause I've got some time to kill, I'll answer to the best of my ability.

1. Can I run video in full resolution to a monitor off of my current computer, maybe just didn't have something configured correctly the first time? (see signature for computer specs)

- Yes. Your computer can run up to 6 monitors. https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT202801 You'll just need adapters from the Thunderbolt ports. (I use this and it works flawlessly:http://a.co/g3w6SlH



You certainly will want multiple screens for your rig. When composing you'll have a lot of windows to keep track of, VIs, Edit, mix, plugins, video etc. (Look into windows configurations if you aren't familiar already.) So multiple screens would be a must. I would at least three (edit/midi, others, video) if not more. Look into the new ultrawide screen displays. They are awesome and worth the money. Monitors tend to last a good long time through multiple computers, so I'd invest in good ones.

2. If it was possible, I'd like to buy a mac mini or something to run the video engine to leave as much CPU power for processing audio and VIs in Pro Tools, and slave it to my Mac Pro (I hope that doesn't sound stupid )

-Not stupid at all. Check out this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I1XpOp5mBGE
I have done this before and while it works, it can feel laggy compared with it running in the same session. This setup will require a second computer and second license of Pro Tools. Pro Tools has abilities to link between multiple machines. You can do some research, it is called Satellite. But that would require having Avid HD interfaces, which I'm guessing you would rather avoid having to purchase and wouldn't easily fit into your budget, But it does perform very, very nicely.

3. Is there hardware (Avid or otherwise) that easily syncs with Pro Tools to offload video engine work without having to get a second computer?

-"Easily" is relative in our world, but to be succinct, no there isn't a simple hardware solution. This is typically achieved by running a separate machine that is dedicated to the task, as you propose.

4. Is there 3rd part software that slaves to Pro Tools that is better than the Avid video engine?

-YES! Check out Video Slave:https://non-lethal-applications.com/.../video-slave-3
It has been gaining traction recently and has good reviews for this very purpose. This is probably your best bet and where I would start. They offer a demo and you can see how much it helps your situation.

5. Are there any questions I'm not asking that I should be?

-All the composers I work with, work within Logic or Cubase, many utilizing Vienna Ensemble. They all still have Pro Tools, but most only use it for prepping and sending their deliverables for the final mix. I only know one that does major work and is only using Pro Tools for his scores. They have some nice features geared toward scoring that might be worth considering, especially if you are using a lot of virtual instruments. As you work on this film you'll learn a lot about what you'd like to have and do in the future. They are most customizable than Pro Tools and perhaps later you'll want to switch. So while this isn't the time to be making a move to another DAW, as you you shortly will need to start putting out a lot of content, I would keep that option in your mind. I wouldn't invest a lot of money into a solution (like a Pro Tools Satellite setup for example) if there is a possibility of you exploring other DAWs. Just a thought.

I'd like to keep my budget less that $3,000 including the purchase of a monitor. Also interested in what size monitor people feel comfortable with mounted in front of them. It will be on the wall about +/- 40 inches from my listening position.

If Video Slave solves your issues, that will be ideal. Then you would come in way under budget. Enough to buy one or two of these guys: http://a.co/4JvnTcD or maybe http://a.co/3SSLiye At that distance perhaps your 27" would work. Then your new monitor(s) on your desk.

Best of luck! Let us know how it works out.

I appreciate the reply! I tried searching, just had no clue what keywords to use to search, because thats how green I am. "Best Pro Tools video setup" didn't return the most helpful results, so I definitely appreciate your patience.

Can I ask a few more dumb questions? Will my CPU not take a hit running the video engine, If I'm outputting HD video? I have the base level graphics cards in my Mac Pro, because when I bought it I wasn't anticipating this change, though I'm not sure how the graphics cards impact this.

You mentioned that running the video engine on a separate computer would require HD hardware and that it could be laggy. But then later you mentioned it performed very, very nicely. Very, Very nicely sounds like what I'm wanting and would definitely be willing to expand my budget for something that ran with the fewest amount of hiccups.

I don't have any desire to explore another DAW, so I wouldn't mind putting more money in to Pro Tools. I do watch videos of guys who do reviews for different VIs and stuff, and am sometimes jealous of their midi workflow. Butttttttt, I've gotten free trials of nearly every DAW out there, and I just don't agree with them. Also, coming from an engineer/producer role first, a lot of my sound design comes from tons of weird and old FX units, rack gear, guitar pedals, filters, analogue synths, etc. So while some of my work is done in the VI world, I'm sending almost all out it out of Pro Tools to shape the sound. Also recording a lot of live instruments, perc, string sections, etc. Jon Brion was a big influence on me, long before I even started getting in to scoring. I definitely like to take a more organic approach to things.

Thanks for all your help!!! Definitely what I needed!!!

[reichman]

Your D300 graphics cards won't hold AVE playback back. I disagree with the first responder, however. Extended desktop video is unreliable. Try using an AJA T-Tap for Thunderbolt to HDMI TV. You'll never go back. Worth every penny.

https://www.aja.com/products/t-tap

[Dan Smith]

Can I ask a few more dumb questions? Will my CPU not take a hit running the video engine, If I'm outputting HD video? I have the base level graphics cards in my Mac Pro, because when I bought it I wasn't anticipating this change, though I'm not sure how the graphics cards impact this.

-Your CPU is going to take a hit no matter what. Pro Tools isn't really designed to harness the power of your video card like a video editing or VFX software would. In my experience replacing a video card has minimal effect to how Pro Tools runs. And even though you have a base level card, it is still quite a powerful card. Like Reichman said, the D300 isn't hindering anything at all. And I completely 100% agree with him. Getting an AJA T-Tap is an excellent idea and would help with some of the issues you might be having with the AVE. It gives you much tighter and reliable sync and the way the drivers interact with Pro Tools seems to help the situation. Glad he mentioned it, it slipped my mind.

You mentioned that running the video engine on a separate computer would require HD hardware and that it could be laggy. But then later you mentioned it performed very, very nicely. Very, Very nicely sounds like what I'm wanting and would definitely be willing to expand my budget for something that ran with the fewest amount of hiccups.

-Yeah I should have started a new paragraph there. Linking up two systems via MTC as shown in the video isn't the tightest solution, though it can work. Satellite is another solution that works very well. It however, requires an HD card, interface, and SYNC. That would be ideal for offloading the video. You can run what is called Video Satellite LE, which would have Pro Tools HD on the main machine and regular Pro Tools on the video machine. It syncs up over ethernet via an internal protocol in Pro Tools and works great. You can google that to see how it all sets up.

I don't have any desire to explore another DAW, so I wouldn't mind putting more money in to Pro Tools...

Makes sense and the way you're using that it would seem like a good fit. My buddy that composing it Pro Tools uses it for similar reasons. To get everything running well he offloads his VIs with vienna ensemble and has a dedicated video machine.

Watch this video to understand more about the video engine. https://youtu.be/6gxLZid2VR4 There are some helpful tips for optimizing in there. My top tips would be always using a preferred video codec like Pro Res or DNxHD, running it off a dedicated SSD drive, and getting a video peripheral like the AJA T-Tap. That will greatly help your system run sessions with video better.

[jaminjamesp]

Originally Posted by reichman

Your D300 graphics cards won't hold AVE playback back. I disagree with the first responder, however. Extended desktop video is unreliable. Try using an AJA T-Tap for Thunderbolt to HDMI TV. You'll never go back. Worth every penny.

https://www.aja.com/products/t-tap

I feel like I'm apologizing every post. But I really am learning all this as I go. So I checked out the AJA-Tap, and I just can't figure out what role it plays in the big picture, and how it benefits me. Does it interface with Pro Tools, or my CPU? Does it share some playback load? How does this benefit me over going directly out of the hdmi output on my Mac Pro?

And what exactly is extended desktop video?

It's crazy to think I've been engineering for 10 years and didn't really even realize there was this whole other world of technical stuff when it came to video. I feel like I'm starting over at square one.

Appreciate the patience and information.

EDIT: after a little more research the T-tap makes a lot more sense, and I've answered most of my questions about it. So my main question at this point is, would there be any advantage to a Mac mini running video slave 3 slaved to my Mac Pro, over using the t-tap with my Mac Pro? Maybe it's just me not understanding the CPU load of running video, but I just get paranoid about more processes happening in Pro Tools. I'm already plagued by AAE 6101 errors that I can't resolve and adding more load seems dodgy. But I'm probably wrong.

[reichman]

I feel like I'm apologizing every post. But I really am learning all this as I go. So I checked out the AJA-Tap, and I just can't figure out what role it plays in the big picture, and how it benefits me. Does it interface with Pro Tools, or my CPU? Does it share some playback load? How does this benefit me over going directly out of the hdmi output on my Mac Pro?

And what exactly is extended desktop video?

It's crazy to think I've been engineering for 10 years and didn't really even realize there was this whole other world of technical stuff when it came to video. I feel like I'm starting over at square one.

Appreciate the patience and information.

EDIT: after a little more research the T-tap makes a lot more sense, and I've answered most of my questions about it. So my main question at this point is, would there be any advantage to a Mac mini running video slave 3 slaved to my Mac Pro, over using the t-tap with my Mac Pro? Maybe it's just me not understanding the CPU load of running video, but I just get paranoid about more processes happening in Pro Tools. I'm already plagued by AAE 6101 errors that I can't resolve and adding more load seems dodgy. But I'm probably wrong.

Don't feel bad asking questions. "Extended desktop" is just a fancy way of saying the video is playing on your computer screen and not on dedicated hardware. Although it got much better in PT11/12, extended desktop is not as stable as dedicated hardware. Also, it's plagued with little problems that you don't want to have with clients in the room (you have to fit it to the screen, your mouse can get in the way, etc.).

I used to run the old VVTR, which is similar to Video Slave 3. All you have to do to determine whether you need that is to switch off "Video Track Online" in the middle of working on one of your biggest sessions. If you don't notice a difference in the responsiveness or GUI-update with video off, you don't need Video Slave. And even if you do, and the performance hit is tolerable, stay with onboard video. Having a separate video computer can be logistically complicated too, which you have to consider (networking, pulling audio from videos, switching sessions, etc.).

Finally, the video codec makes a huge performance difference. Using Apple Pro Res Proxy or DNxHD makes for a butter-smooth system responsiveness. My Mac seems totally unaffected in performance with Apple Pro Res.

[jaminjamesp]

Originally Posted by reichman

Don't feel bad asking questions. "Extended desktop" is just a fancy way of saying the video is playing on your computer screen and not on dedicated hardware. Although it got much better in PT11/12, extended desktop is not as stable as dedicated hardware. Also, it's plagued with little problems that you don't want to have with clients in the room (you have to fit it to the screen, your mouse can get in the way, etc.).

I used to run the old VVTR, which is similar to Video Slave 3. All you have to do to determine whether you need that is to switch off "Video Track Online" in the middle of working on one of your biggest sessions. If you don't notice a difference in the responsiveness or GUI-update with video off, you don't need Video Slave. And even if you do, and the performance hit is tolerable, stay with onboard video. Having a separate video computer can be logistically complicated too, which you have to consider (networking, pulling audio from videos, switching sessions, etc.).

Finally, the video codec makes a huge performance difference. Using Apple Pro Res Proxy or DNxHD makes for a butter-smooth system responsiveness. My Mac seems totally unaffected in performance with Apple Pro Res.

Thanks for all that!!! So much help!

[Rich Breen]

Originally Posted by Dan Smith

...Watch this video to understand more about the video engine. https://youtu.be/6gxLZid2VR4 There are some helpful tips for optimizing in there. ...

Wow, I thought I was pretty up on specifics of the AVE, but I learned a LOT from this video! Thanks for that Dan!