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  #1  
Old 05-27-2014, 04:02 PM
Mano Mano is offline
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Default Offline bounce vs. Realtime bounce significant differences

Today i did some offline bounces with ADC on PT 11 HDX 11.1.3
As i listened back the bounced products i was quite a bit shocked.
It sounded different than the mixes I made : Less low-end and more M than S.
So i checked my IO setup for mistaking routings...nothing wrong.
So i bounced the same mix in realtime and it sounded exactly the same as my mix. What the $!% going on here ? Because this was certainly not an ADC issue or caused by improper IO settings.( i checked this over and over again...)

Second : when i oflline-bounce several busses ( with ADC ) i noticed a latency of up to 960samples compared to the originals when importing the bounce into the session @ selection.

Session details : ProTools 11.1.3 HDX, MacPro 2014 8 core , Magma thunderbolt expressbox with 2 x HDX, 35 tracks with Waves SSLchannels bussed to 6 AUX ( with some Waves VEQ4 and Sonnox inflators)
Vocal tracks not bussed but spiced with SSLchannels followed and CLA76
Reverbs: 2CAUDIO B2 native, 2CAUDIO Aether native , Lexicon PCM native reverb Vintageplate.
Masterbus ( MAIN OUT ) McDSP ML4000 ( aax dsp) WAVES comp ( native) Kramer Tape, REDD 37, SONNOX limiter.
Automatic Delay Compensation and AVID Heat enabled.
Disk Cache @ 2 GB, playback engine 512 samples.

Both problems are reproducable in different sessions under same conditions
Can anyone shine a light on this ??

Last edited by Mano; 05-27-2014 at 04:28 PM. Reason: want to be precise
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  #2  
Old 05-27-2014, 04:14 PM
mesaone mesaone is offline
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Default Re: Offline bounce vs. Realtime bounce significant differences

Did you happen to have Low Latency Monitoring enabled? Always turn it off when doing an offline bounce.
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  #3  
Old 05-27-2014, 04:20 PM
guitardom guitardom is offline
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Default Re: Offline bounce vs. Realtime bounce significant differences

Do a null test and see if the files phase each other out or not.
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  #4  
Old 05-27-2014, 04:39 PM
innesireinar innesireinar is offline
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Default Re: Offline bounce vs. Realtime bounce significant differences

Obviously during the offline bounce only the native plugins are involved. Tracks with dsp plugins are processed by their native version due to the fact that dsp plugins work in realtime only. You have to check that every dsp plugins istantiated in the session have their native version. Furthermore, there are some plugs that sound different between native and dsp instantiations. The old TL Space tdm has a different gain compared to its rtas version with the same setting. Try to convert all dsp plugins to native and try to compare the realtime to the offline bounce. I'm curious. Can't do the test by myself, still on PT10 on tdm hw.
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  #5  
Old 05-27-2014, 04:40 PM
Mano Mano is offline
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Default Re: Offline bounce vs. Realtime bounce significant differences

Low Latency Monitoring is HD native right ?
I'm on HDX.

I do not need a null test to hear the difference because the difference in sound is remarkable
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  #6  
Old 05-27-2014, 04:47 PM
Mano Mano is offline
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Default Re: Offline bounce vs. Realtime bounce significant differences

Quote:
Originally Posted by innesireinar View Post
Obviously during the offline bounce only the native plugins are involved. Tracks with dsp plugins are processed by their native version due to the fact that dsp plugins work in realtime only. You have to check that every dsp plugins istantiated in the session have their native version. Furthermore, there are some plugs that sound different between native and dsp instantiations. The old TL Space tdm has a different gain compared to its rtas version with the same setting. Try to convert all dsp plugins to native and try to compare the realtime to the offline bounce. I'm curious. Can't do the test by myself, still on PT10 on tdm hw.
All my AAX DSP plugins have their AAX native versions so that cant be...
I'm aware of those differences in the past with Waves plugins but they got that fixed since a few years, and since Waves refused to develop AAX DSP versions that can't be the issue...( damn you Waves ! but in this case you're saved by te bell
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  #7  
Old 05-27-2014, 04:56 PM
mesaone mesaone is offline
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Default Re: Offline bounce vs. Realtime bounce significant differences

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mano View Post
Low Latency Monitoring is HD native right ?
I'm on HDX.
HD Native and ASIO / Core Audio. But not HDX, so I guess it wouldn't affect you.
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  #8  
Old 05-27-2014, 10:17 PM
fsavell fsavell is offline
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Default Re: Offline bounce vs. Realtime bounce significant differences

Quote:
Originally Posted by innesireinar View Post
Try to convert all dsp plugins to native and try to compare the realtime to the offline bounce.
This is the reason for sure. I was about to post about the same issue, finding that my offline bounces weren't the same as my internal prints. Did a bit of investigating and found one sneaky plugin was DSP which obviously was not processing when the offline bounce ran. Changed it to Native, re-bounced and everything was the same.

Check through all your plugins, I would bet one or more are DSP.

What is interesting is if I inactivate that DSP plugin, my live mix still doesn't sound like the "incorrect" offline bounce, which is a head-scratcher, but at least the offline print isn't faulty, like I first thought.

Forrester
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  #9  
Old 05-27-2014, 10:42 PM
Mano Mano is offline
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Default Re: Offline bounce vs. Realtime bounce significant differences

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Originally Posted by fsavell View Post
This is the reason for sure. I was about to post about the same issue, finding that my offline bounces weren't the same as my internal prints. Did a bit of investigating and found one sneaky plugin was DSP which obviously was not processing when the offline bounce ran. Changed it to Native, re-bounced and everything was the same.

Check through all your plugins, I would bet one or more are DSP.

What is interesting is if I inactivate that DSP plugin, my live mix still doesn't sound like the "incorrect" offline bounce, which is a head-scratcher, but at least the offline print isn't faulty, like I first thought.

Forrester
Would share with us which plug it izz ??
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  #10  
Old 05-28-2014, 04:47 AM
fsavell fsavell is offline
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Default Re: Offline bounce vs. Realtime bounce significant differences

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mano View Post
Would share with us which plug it izz ??
Cranesong Phoenix II
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