What's going on with my I/O in PT 10?

[right beside]

Here's my problem. A few months ago, I received some PT sessions of some overdubs. When I imported the tracks I wanted from these sessions, into my own sessions, PT made duplicates of some of my line and ADAT bus paths. The duplicates were all given a number in parentheses after their name. So that the list that includes:
ADAT 1-2
ADAT 3-4
now also includes:
ADAT 1-2 (1)
ADAT 3-4 (1)

But on top of this, as I continue to work in these sessions, PT keeps duplicating the bus paths. So now I also have:
ADAT 1-2 (2)
ADAT 3-4 (2)
ADAT 1-2 (3)
ADAT 2-4 (3)

and so on. It continues doing this until it reaches a threshold and then begins assigning some of my other bus paths to hardware paths that don't exist. Since those hardware paths don't exist, PT deactivates those bus paths (which it re-assigned on its own) and suddenly tracks that use those paths are offline.

In order to fix this, I have to go into I/O and delete all the duplicate paths. Then close the dialogue box. Then go back into I/O and uncheck the bus paths I want back. Then re-check them. Then close dialogue box.

Why is PT duplicating these bus paths in what seems like every time I open the sessions?

I'm not sure its really related, but I have 'sessions overwrite..." UNCHECKED.
So that should mean that my system's I/O does NOT change when I open ANY session. And in the above scenario, I am only opening a session that I created on my system. But the problem started when I imported the tracks from the sessions I was sent. These sessions were fine until then and the I/O was stable.

[right beside]

No one???

Let me re-phrase my questions:

1. Why would importing session data (tracks) from another session into a master session cause PT to create duplicates of line and ADAT buses that existed prior to the import? These are NOT buses being used by the incoming tracks. Yet PT is duplicating them and jamming up my I/O

2. Why would saving and re-opening said session at a later time cause PT to continue doing this? Isn't once enough? Fiend!!

3. Is this maybe a bug and not one of the new I/O features?

4. Why isn't my I/O left alone if I have "sessions overwrite...." UNCHECKED?

5. These sessions worked fine up until the point where I imported the tracks.

[Chief Technician]

Which version of 10? 10.3.7? Which version of Pro Tools created the session that you are importing from? What are your import session data options (all or some)? What OS?

[right beside]

Originally Posted by Chief Technician

Which version of 10? 10.3.7? Which version of Pro Tools created the session that you are importing from? What are your import session data options (all or some)? What OS?

My system details are at the bottom of my post. Regardless, they are:

2013 MBP 15" 2.6 GHz i7
16GB Ram
OS X 10.8.3
PT 10.3.5
Focusrite Liquid Saffire 56
Eleven Rack
Command 8
OWC On-the-go Pro Firewire HD

The sessions I imported from are PT 10 sessions, but I don't know the exact version. Where/how can I see that info?

I don't remember what my import data options were, but it was probably some. Tracks, playlists, groups, plug-ins.

I imported these tracks into my Master session a few months ago. I didn't notice the problem at first, as it was going on in the background, accumulating duplicate (unused) buses. I was just editing and arranging, saving, closing, and re-opening later. It went on until finally, enough buses had been duplicated that the list was full and, I think by default, buses I am actually using were re-mapped and then made N/A.

I cleaned out the I/O and saved, and all was good for awhile, but another month has passed and the same thing has happened. If I go back through my session backups, I can see the accumulation taking place.

It might not be related, but I have been doing this work away from my main studio and have not been using the Focusrite, just PT aggregate. The buses that are being duplicated refer to the Focusrite. Lines and ADAT.

[wmcintyre]

I'm getting something similar but with PT11...on some sessions all my busses become no longer active as they are used up....
I am able to create a new session and import data to get everything working though..
real pain

[right beside]

2 more things:

When I open the donor sessions, my I/O is changed to the I/O of that session,
even though "sessions overwrite...." is unchecked. Apparently that box is useless on my system.

Also, the buses that are constantly being duplicated in my sessions, are not present in the donor sessions. So, I am not inheriting them from there. Its' just that importing the tracks from them is some how triggering this duplicating mess in my sessions

[right beside]

Originally Posted by wmcintyre

I'm getting something similar but with PT11...on some sessions all my busses become no longer active as they are used up....
I am able to create a new session and import data to get everything working though..
real pain

Yeah, I would check to see if some are not just being duplicated. If it's the same thing as on my system, once that IO list gets full, at the next duplication, my actually-used buses get shifted down (or up) in the list and then are also mapped to an un-used hardware bus, which renders them N/A. Check and see if your N/A buses have the "mappping to output" box checked. It's on the right. Unchecking that box alone won't bring them back. You also have to uncheck and re-check the regular old active box to the immediate right of the bus. As well as make sure all the duplicate buses are deleted.

This has got be be a bug or a new setting introduced in PT 10. This hasn't happened on any of my systems before, and certainly not in PT 9 when the "sessions overwrite......" thing was installed.

Does anyone know if this is all because of some new feature? Is there just some box somewhere that I have to uncheck to get my system to behave?

[right beside]

Okay did some more troubleshooting:

1. Opened a session and deleted all unused buses, saved and closed. Included in the deletion were the original buses that are being duplicated.

2. Checked I/O and buses still gone.

3. Re-opened session and checked I/O and original buses are back.

I guess they are considered part of my saved I/O and when I open the session, they are loaded as well as the sessions I/O. Kind of like I/O merge.

The problem seems to be that if I save that session with them still in the I/O, they are written into that session. But later when I re-open that session, PT loads the original ones, but then ADDS the ones saved in the session, instead of realizing they are THE SAME. That creates a duplicate.

Save and close. Now original and duplicates are saved in session file. Open again, PT loads my original ones (all this since "sessions overwrite…." is unchecked, mind you), then adds the 2 copies that are saved in the session file. Now there are 3 copies. And so on.

I repeated steps 1, 2, and 3 but initially CHECKED the "sessions overwrite…" box and all was good. All things deleted were not present, just the I/O I saved with the session.. PT did issue a prompt to tell me that it was saving my I/O setting since I was now CHECKING the "sessions overwrites…" box.

So it seems to me the 'bug' is that PT can't recognize as being the same, the duplicates it has created.

I also don't understand why this behavior started only AFTER importing the tracks I initially mentioned. I can go back through backups of the sessions from before that time and look at the I/O's and they are all static.

The nature of the "sessions overwrite…" feature renders it more than useless, but a menace. The feature seems to be saying that: You can save an I/O that you like, but every time you open a session its I/O will be added to yours, EVEN IF it's already in your I/O. We will not take the time to analyze and determine, we will only add and accrue bus paths until your I/O is bogged down.

Why can't there just be a 'feature' that lets me save my I/O, and have it not be altered by anything unless I do it myself? As it is, I either have to deal with this above nightmare, or I have to check that box and have my I/O completely overwritten every time I open a session.

Right now the latter option is easier than the former.

[1m1]

I see the same thing, too—happens to me in my workflow with a certain type of project. I'm about to do a project of the type where it occurs, so maybe I'll try something new to see if I can eliminate the problem.

If I recall correctly, one thing that seemed to work is if prior to opening a new session, I go into the Buss page of the I/O Setup and select and delete all of the busses that are in there. Then when I open the session there are no new duplicate busses.

[right beside]

No one knows what's going on? I don't believe the system is supposed to act like this.

Here are 2 archived threads that deal with similar if not the same problems:

http://duc.avid.com/archive/index.php/t-326949.html
http://duc.avid.com/archive/index.php/t-316978.html

And here's a common sense suggestion at the ideascale:

http://protools.ideascale.com/a/dtd/...ne/100162-3779

Obviously PT users are having trouble with the I/O set-up features and the changes it is allowed to automatically make in the background.

I'd just like to know what tweak I have to make to my system to have it stop duplicating buses while at the same time let me save an I/O for use in all sessions.