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  #31  
Old 09-25-2018, 04:15 PM
bsteeve bsteeve is offline
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Default Re: What do I need to monitor in Dolby Atmos with my setup?

Quote:
Originally Posted by lucienpalmer View Post
Ouch. I didn't know the speaker tuning card was $2200. And at $2999, there are better options over the Intonato. The QSC Q-Sys 110f is one of them. So he could do an HD I/O and run analog into the QSC and off to the speakers.

https://www.qsc.com/de-new/systems/p...res/core-110f/

I use the 250i. The QSC stuff is amazing. It'll hand the room tuning and the monitor control (via iPad). You can program it to do anything you want.
How easy is it to implement and program the QSC 110f? Those connectors at the back of the QSC require some custom cables to be made... The Intonato looks relatively simple and since every speakers we have are JBLs (3x 708p, 10x 705p, 6 x Control 2P and 1x S2S-EX LFE), it would be easy setup and has a remote... and it also has time delay, EQ but locks you in to their setup...

trying to make up my mind about which route to go down.

The main thing is I want to be able to switch between Atmos, 7.1 and 5.1 easily with all the tuning and level calibration following along as well as easily preview folddown mixes from Atmos to 7.1 and 5.1. I see the intonato you setup different scene do that for you. I'm assuming this is something you also do the Q-sys?

I would also love in 7.1 and 5.1 mode for the side and rear speakers to be linked as an array like you would have in a cinema system
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  #32  
Old 09-25-2018, 05:00 PM
lucienpalmer lucienpalmer is offline
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Default Re: What do I need to monitor in Dolby Atmos with my setup?

The QSC is basically a Linux-based box that comes as a complete blank slate that can pretty much route anywhere and do anything you want. You'll have to either hire someone to program it (I have a referral), or spend 2 days watching tutorials on their website (they are really good videos). Programming requires a windows PC somewhere on the same network to run the designer software. Designing is easy with a GUI that lets you drag around modules like mixers, EQ's, signal generators, etc, and virtually wire them. Once the design is finished and loaded, you don't need the PC anymore. The software also lets you create snapshots of different routing, tunings, etc. Assign them to buttons and create an iPad control interface. (or other touch screens).

The analog connections are just 3 terminal Phoenix connectors. It took me about an hour to cut the end of a dozen XLR cables off and insert them into the blocks. No soldering, just little screws.
https://media.rs-online.com/t_large/F1896026-01.jpg

Honestly, Intonato is probably a lot easier to work with, but do some research it to make sure it'll do all the different configurations and room tunings you want. The QSC is almost limitless, so that's not an issue.
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  #33  
Old 09-26-2018, 01:58 AM
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ntp-jl ntp-jl is offline
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Default Re: What do I need to monitor in Dolby Atmos with my setup?

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Originally Posted by bsteeve View Post
The main thing is I want to be able to switch between Atmos, 7.1 and 5.1 easily with all the tuning and level calibration following along as well as easily preview folddown mixes from Atmos to 7.1 and 5.1.

I would also love in 7.1 and 5.1 mode for the side and rear speakers to be linked as an array like you would have in a cinema system
These are some of the key features of the MTRX/Pro Mon/SPQ combination. There are different ways to achieve what you want to do, so you justneed to work out what is the best way for you.

The programming of the monitor controller is done in a "monitor profile" which is loaded into our DADman control software (which controls the MTRX). The monitor profile includes your definitions of sources, speaker sets, fold-downs, EQ, speaker delay, levels, etc. Loading a profile takes a couple of seconds, i.e. much faster than loading a PT session.

One way to achieve what you want to do, is to create multiple profiles; one for ATMOS, one for 7.1, one for 5.1 etc. In that case you simply load the profile that matches your project.

Another way is to define multiple speaker sets in the same profile; one for ATMOS, one for 7.1, one for 5.1, etc. You can use the same physical outputs from the MTRX in all speaker sets so for example your LEFT speaker can be used in both 5.1, 7.1 and ATMOS. The really cool thing is that you can apply different EQ, delay, levels, etc. to each speaker set so all these settings are atuomatically applied whenver you select a speaker set. You can even define multiple speaker sets with the same format (e.g. 5.1) and using the same physical outputs, but with different EQ for example to adapt to different listening positions. So you can switch between different speaker sets with different EQ by the click of a mouse or pressing a button on the MOM or pressing a softkey on the PT Control app.

The array thing is just as easy to do. We have a concept called "speaker match" which allows you to define how you want a source signal to be distributed to your speaker set. It is basically a fold-down which can also do a "fold-up". First step is that you define your ATMOS speaker set in terms of front speakers, side speakers, etc. (see attached screendump). Once your have defined your ATMOS set-up, you simply create a "fold-up" where you specify how you want your source signal (e.g. 7.1) routed to your ATMOS speaker set (and with any gain adjustment to maintain SPL). Again, you simply click a button and your signal is distributed to your speakers just like you want it.

I know the MTRX and associated option cards is relatively expensive, however when you look at the feature set, extreme flexibility, ease of use and integration capability, you really get an extemely powerful solution.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Custom formats.JPG (32.9 KB, 0 views)
File Type: jpg Speaker match.jpg (28.4 KB, 0 views)
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  #34  
Old 09-26-2018, 08:38 AM
lucienpalmer lucienpalmer is offline
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Default Re: What do I need to monitor in Dolby Atmos with my setup?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ntp-jl View Post
Another way is to define multiple speaker sets in the same profile; one for ATMOS, one for 7.1, one for 5.1, etc. You can use the same physical outputs from the MTRX in all speaker sets so for example your LEFT speaker can be used in both 5.1, 7.1 and ATMOS. The really cool thing is that you can apply different EQ, delay, levels, etc. to each speaker set so all these settings are atuomatically applied whenver you select a speaker set. You can even define multiple speaker sets with the same format (e.g. 5.1) and using the same physical outputs, but with different EQ for example to adapt to different listening positions. So you can switch between different speaker sets with different EQ by the click of a mouse or pressing a button on the MOM or pressing a softkey on the PT Control app.
Thanks for chiming in with these details. I didn't know the monitor card could have different tunings assigned to different speaker setups. I just installed the Atmos Mastering hardware on my stage, and I was impressed how easy it was to set up DADman for multiple speaker sets for Atmos and the re-renders for 7.1, 5.1, and 2.0. Plus Pro Tools outputs and all the OS stereo outs from multiple computers in the room. Switching is really easy. It would be extra convenient to have the room tuning change automatically without having to change settings on a separate piece of hardware.

You mentioned the PT Control App. Does it have a monitor source switching page like the S6 software?
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S6 M10 16-5, Dolby Atmos RMU
AJA Kona LHi, Sync HD
www.ToolshedAudioPost.com
Certified for Dolby Atmos Home Entertainment
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  #35  
Old 09-26-2018, 04:39 PM
bsteeve bsteeve is offline
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Default Re: What do I need to monitor in Dolby Atmos with my setup?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ntp-jl View Post
These are some of the key features of the MTRX/Pro Mon/SPQ combination. There are different ways to achieve what you want to do, so you justneed to work out what is the best way for you.

The programming of the monitor controller is done in a "monitor profile" which is loaded into our DADman control software (which controls the MTRX). The monitor profile includes your definitions of sources, speaker sets, fold-downs, EQ, speaker delay, levels, etc. Loading a profile takes a couple of seconds, i.e. much faster than loading a PT session.

One way to achieve what you want to do, is to create multiple profiles; one for ATMOS, one for 7.1, one for 5.1 etc. In that case you simply load the profile that matches your project.

Another way is to define multiple speaker sets in the same profile; one for ATMOS, one for 7.1, one for 5.1, etc. You can use the same physical outputs from the MTRX in all speaker sets so for example your LEFT speaker can be used in both 5.1, 7.1 and ATMOS. The really cool thing is that you can apply different EQ, delay, levels, etc. to each speaker set so all these settings are atuomatically applied whenver you select a speaker set. You can even define multiple speaker sets with the same format (e.g. 5.1) and using the same physical outputs, but with different EQ for example to adapt to different listening positions. So you can switch between different speaker sets with different EQ by the click of a mouse or pressing a button on the MOM or pressing a softkey on the PT Control app.

The array thing is just as easy to do. We have a concept called "speaker match" which allows you to define how you want a source signal to be distributed to your speaker set. It is basically a fold-down which can also do a "fold-up". First step is that you define your ATMOS speaker set in terms of front speakers, side speakers, etc. (see attached screendump). Once your have defined your ATMOS set-up, you simply create a "fold-up" where you specify how you want your source signal (e.g. 7.1) routed to your ATMOS speaker set (and with any gain adjustment to maintain SPL). Again, you simply click a button and your signal is distributed to your speakers just like you want it.

I know the MTRX and associated option cards is relatively expensive, however when you look at the feature set, extreme flexibility, ease of use and integration capability, you really get an extemely powerful solution.
Thanks so much Jan... Don't get me wrong, I WANT the MTRX and MOM! And the fact that it can do exactly what I want it do it with ease is priceless. It will also make it very easy for the students to handle too which is the main point.

When I saw what Martie Humpthrey did with his setup at the dubstage and how easily he can switch between different monitor format, calibration levels etc... at the click of a button on his iPad I instantly wanted that! He is using a Q-sys and an iPad in conjunction with the DAD32, but I though I could achieve something similar with the MOM without spending days figuring out how to program the Q-sys.

At this point it is just a matter of convincing the people with access to the bank account to go for it.
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  #36  
Old 09-26-2018, 05:21 PM
bsteeve bsteeve is offline
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Default Re: What do I need to monitor in Dolby Atmos with my setup?

On another note, what do you guys use to measure time delay from speakers and frequency response to tune them with the EQ? I always had someone else doing that for me... so time for me to do myself now Also when you link speakers as a array does this change the methodology for time delay and tuning?
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  #37  
Old 09-27-2018, 06:01 AM
bsteeve bsteeve is offline
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Default Re: What do I need to monitor in Dolby Atmos with my setup?

With the help of another fellow engineer on GS I've drawn up this setup diagram.
This is based on the new Dolby Mastering suite 3.0 allowing the use of Mac/PC computer as a Home Theatre RMU with a Focusrite rednet 128I/O Dante card connecting to the MTRX using the new DAD Dante 128 I/O card coming out this November.
The cost of the upgrade for us would be around $US28K which I'm sure I can push through... Just want to make sure I got it right this time!
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  #38  
Old 09-27-2018, 10:01 AM
BScout BScout is offline
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Default Re: What do I need to monitor in Dolby Atmos with my setup?

You’ll need LTC over Audio/Dante (so a Sync HD plus analog to Dante converter)

And with this setup, you won’t have a way to bypass the RMU to monitoring path in Pro Tools while in Atmos (Unless you give up some Atmos object/bed channels). That is generally not a good idea (and definitely not recommended by Dolby -- they believe you should have a bypass monitoring path for the full bed channels.) I’d give up some objects to have at least a direct stereo path to speakers.

If you are always going through the RMU, the Dolby Mastering Suite has room tuning/eq/delay/trim in the speaker setup so you potentially wouldn’t need the SPQ card. Another place to save money (you can always buy that later if the Dolby solution doesn’t work for you)

(Also, the iPad MOM app and the real MOM hardware both do NOT use Eucon. They use a different proprietary network control language. This is just FYI.)
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Last edited by BScout; 09-27-2018 at 11:06 AM. Reason: clarified "bypass monitoring"
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  #39  
Old 09-27-2018, 10:18 AM
lucienpalmer lucienpalmer is offline
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Default Re: What do I need to monitor in Dolby Atmos with my setup?

No, thats all wrong. Choose between doing MADI or Dante. In this drawing, you are using a Mac for Atmos Mastering with Dante. There would be no point to having MADI at all. Use MADI if you buy a PC based Atmos Mastering unit.

1. You won't need the 128ch Dante card, the current 64 ch card is enough, because the MTRX can only do 64 I/O from pro tools anyway. You will only be capable of 64 channels for Atmos.

2. you also need a Sync HD to communicate LTC to the Atmos Mastering hardware. You have to buy another analog to Date interface to get the signal to it.

Are you sure you was to set up the Atmos Mastering hardware? I just don't see the point unless you are delivering master files to a network. The Production Suite does everything except that. It's overkill for a school. Spend that money towards and S6.
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AJA Kona LHi, Sync HD
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  #40  
Old 09-27-2018, 10:30 AM
lucienpalmer lucienpalmer is offline
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Default Re: What do I need to monitor in Dolby Atmos with my setup?

...And if you go the Dante route, you also need an approved network switch to connect the Dante devices.
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S6 M10 16-5, Dolby Atmos RMU
AJA Kona LHi, Sync HD
www.ToolshedAudioPost.com
Certified for Dolby Atmos Home Entertainment
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