PT10 Bug: Midi functions very slow with large track counts

[dterry]

This was originally posted here but since it includes quite a few midi functions, I've started a new thread to list them in detail.

In ProTools 10 (Win7 only apparently), the more midi tracks in the project, the slower the following become (rough timing estimates listed with each). In a standard film scoring template, there are serious lags for the following:

1. Track selection via mouse (1-2s)
2. Record enable a midi track (1-2s)
3. Use spacebar/stop to drop out of record (2-3s)
4. Change a tempo marker value (3-5s)
5. Move tempo markers (3-5s)
6. Undo recording of a clip (undo of event edits is instantaneous) (2-3s)
7. Switch from midi editor to score/notation view from the midi editor (was in PT9, but may be even slower in 10). (15-20s)

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Problem reproduction:

A. General Function Delays:

1. Create a new project.
2. Add 200 midi tracks.
3. Record enable one track - time how long it takes for PT10 to be ready for playback/record.
4. Start recording on that track (input/data doesn't matter). Stop record with the return - see how long it takes PT to return to the start of the project (spacebar, Eucon "stop" all do the same - this gives a visual reference for the delay involved).
5. Record enable an audio track - notice there is no delay.

B. Score Editor Delay

1. Now open a single midi clip in the midi editor.
2. Click the score view button, time how long it takes to switch. 15-20 seconds here, for a single midi track. Basically, notation view is completely unusable for composer setups.

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Using a Eucon controller to select tracks is much faster. Dropping out of record is also much faster with a controller (Avid Control here) by hitting the "rec" transport button and the "stop" on the controller in quick succession.

I submitted a phone support case for this, but CS listed it as a PT9 issue (sigh), and only included the record enable issue in the case. As such, I'll have to burn another ASC to get this case listed correctly, and completely.

This is a serious problem for large scoring templates common for composers.
Imagine how many times a day one drops a midi track in and out of record, stops recording, changes tempos, etc while working on a film. I am easily losing 20-45 minutes a day just waiting for PT10 to respond. I would drop back to 9, but now isn't the time.

This needs a fix very soon. It is the only issue I have run into with PT10, but is a very serious one for composers and midi users.

Ideascale entry here.

[filosofem]

Many of these issues dterry I can reproduce however not to the delay length you have reported. After following your steps to reproduce, a processing lag of one maybe one and a half seconds is present. Though with 200 plus MIDI tracks a bug is produced.

[dterry]

Thanks for the reply and for testing it.

Yes, with a blank project and just 200 midi tracks, it's around 1.5 seconds for a track record enable. Tempo changes are closer to 3-5 seconds. (I have revised the original post to be a little more specific on the delay estimates).

However, it was not like this in PT9, even in a full template with video. There will be some general lag overall with heavier laden projects, but this is excessive.

(Notation editor has always taken 15-20 seconds to open in larger projects even in PT9).

[filosofem]

Originally Posted by dterry

(Notation editor has always taken 15-20 seconds to open in larger projects even in PT9).

Yeah there was a noticeable processing lag enabling Notation View. Ummm... fingers crossed a fix will be included in the next dot release.

[dterry]

Here's hoping the fix comes soon.

FYI: Avid support has logged it as a bug and did recreate it there (thanks to tech support for working on this).

I realized today the most significant problem with this bug is in tempo editing. With 200+ tracks, every change to the tempo track takes 4-10 seconds to respond. PT is non-responsive during this time.

For example, create a linear or parabolic tempo curve and try to adjust a few segments to tweak your ramp - each change takes several seconds to respond. Undo a tweak, wait 5 seconds. Drag a new change to try, wait 5 seconds. Undo that, wait again. Delete a measure of tempo changes, wait 5 seconds. It adds up to a huge amount of time waiting just to edit one bar with a custom tempo change. Tempo change functions take just as long to apply, so there is no shortcut to avoid these lags.

My workaround is to edit tempo in a separate session with no midi tracks and just marker guides, then import that back into my scoring session.

This is just a heads up for other PT composers out there and not a rant about this issue, or against Avid - it's being addressed, that's all I can ask of them, and support really was excellent to work with.

[matthias.matthias]

I can also confirm the bugs and voted in the Idea Scale.
I'm afraid these are the same bugs introduced in 9.0.5:

http://duc.avid.com/showthread.php?t=308190

http://duc.avid.com/showthread.php?t=308591

I sure hope they get fixed soon!

[dterry]

Interesting - certainly sounds like the same thing.

I was on 9.0.0 before upgrading to 10. (9.0 worked fine so I never updated to .03 or .05).

[matthias.matthias]

I just checked MIDI in PT 9.0.3 - everything is fine there. I remember having all kinds of problems with MIDI in 9.0.5, which is why I rolled back to 9.0.3.

It would be interesting to see, if it's the exact same behavior in 9.0.5 as it is in 10.0.0. But rolling back from 9.0.5 has been a real drag (installing from scratch and then upgrading again to 9.0.3), so I really don't want to go there again.

[kanivarus]

I'm also having midi-related issues in notation view. Except I don't need 200 midi tracks to reproduce the issue (around 10-20 midi tracks, 2 vst plug-ins opened, 20 blank audio tracks).

For me, the midi notes respond extremely slowly every time I try to place a note, edit a note, move a note, etc. and as you say, this makes it extremely difficult for midi score users. I hope the fix to the issue you reported will fix all midi-related issues including mine.

I created a thread of my own but never got a response.
http://duc.avid.com/showthread.php?t...highlight=slow

[Violet]

Any update on this? I went back to Pro Tools 9 because I have huge templates with lots of instrument and midi tracks. The delay is a joke. What did you do Avid??