Love em or Hate Waves finally puts DLS bundles on sale

[Barry Johns]

These also allow you to used HD I/O's with PT vanilla, it is also an option for HDN to have the tracking with Plugins that you have with HDX.

[JFreak]

Their real "upgrade" would've been AAX-DSP support...

[propower]

Love em or hate em - but to deny that waves has really got something here is to bury your head in the sand - it may not be for YOU - and probably not for ME but it is intriguing...

- Allows use of AVID i/o (all digilink ones ) with any DAW.
- Allows guaranteed low tracking latency through WAVES plugs (for now) on ANY Native system (and on any DAW)
- Allows low latency tracking through WAVES plug ins (via Waves dsp) on ProTools HDX systems.
- Allows Ethernet connectivity between multiple interfaces (can be long distances too)
- Allows Ethernet sharing of resources in multi room - or - multi computer - or multi interface networks.

At $2850 for Gold Soundgrid + their DLS + $600 for a 192 i/o you have a pretty nice tracking and mixing system that will run on PT11, Logic, Cubase etc...

Throw all the rocks you want. This is NOT an add on to Pro Tools it is a competitors hardware solution that "can" be added to PT. I still don't think it is for me (though seriously considering it) but do I think this is a SERIOUS competitor to HD Native - absolutely! Man do I wish this was AVIDs vision! Lastly - the current upgrades (from Native Bundles) for getting the DLS + Mercury Soundgrid are pretty aggressively priced. Waves has always made a pretty solid product (multi monitor bug conceded). And over the last 5 years they have also adapted prices and policies fairly nicely to the times...

[Brandonx1]

What's the latency? The bigger issue is you are stuck with waves plug ins!

[YYR123]

Very few waves boxes going out the door I guarantee it

[propower]

Originally Posted by Brandonx1

What's the latency? The bigger issue is you are stuck with waves plug ins!

For tracking through Waves plugs (using either their audio driver or an HDX system) it is the A/D D/A time of your interface + 0.8ms. At 96kHz with AVID i/o this is ~1.3ms (regardless of buffer setting)

For tracking through NON-waves plugins - you are better off with HD Native (latency wise)

Waves are actively trying to get other manufacturers on Soundgrid platform but so far Plug in Alliance is the only other one.

From their own FAQ
What are the different latencies of the SoundGrid Studio System?
Latency is something that may change between systems. The latency to server and back (DSP processing on all systems) is 0.8 ms. If plugins introduce latency, this also needs to be taken into account. Plugin latencies can be found here: www.waves.com/support/tech-specs/plugin-latency.

For Native users of DiGiGrid IOS in low-latency monitoring mode, internal processing latency is 0.8 ms + the latency introduced by A/D and D/A convertors. No matter which Native buffer parameters are set on your DAW, this is the round trip when you use the StudioRack and eMotion ST low-latency path:

-A/D latency – less than 1 ms SoundGrid processing (StudioRack + eMotion ST mixer) – 0.8ms Plugin latency – depends which plugins and how many of them are instantiated
-D/A latency – less than 1 ms
-The default processing latency is the same for all DiGiGrid I/Os. It may differ, however, between A/D and D/A convertors.

-Internal processing for DiGiGrid DLS is only 0.8 ms for HDX users, but 0.8 ms + HDN buffer x2 for users of HD Native.

-If you’re not using SoundGrid processing at all, the total latency depends on your PT Native buffer + SoundGrid system A/D, D/A and network buffer:
A/D latency – less than 1 ms
SoundGrid ASIO/Core Audio driver latency – 4 ms
D/A latency – less than 1 ms

[Brandonx1]

Originally Posted by propower

For tracking through Waves plugs (using either their audio driver or an HDX system) it is the A/D D/A time of your interface + 0.8ms. At 96kHz with AVID i/o this is ~1.3ms (regardless of buffer setting)

For tracking through NON-waves plugins - you are better off with HD Native (latency wise)

Waves are actively trying to get other manufacturers on Soundgrid platform but so far Plug in Alliance is the only other one.

From their own FAQ
What are the different latencies of the SoundGrid Studio System?
Latency is something that may change between systems. The latency to server and back (DSP processing on all systems) is 0.8 ms. If plugins introduce latency, this also needs to be taken into account. Plugin latencies can be found here: www.waves.com/support/tech-specs/plugin-latency.

For Native users of DiGiGrid IOS in low-latency monitoring mode, internal processing latency is 0.8 ms + the latency introduced by A/D and D/A convertors. No matter which Native buffer parameters are set on your DAW, this is the round trip when you use the StudioRack and eMotion ST low-latency path:

-A/D latency – less than 1 ms SoundGrid processing (StudioRack + eMotion ST mixer) – 0.8ms Plugin latency – depends which plugins and how many of them are instantiated
-D/A latency – less than 1 ms
-The default processing latency is the same for all DiGiGrid I/Os. It may differ, however, between A/D and D/A convertors.

-Internal processing for DiGiGrid DLS is only 0.8 ms for HDX users, but 0.8 ms + HDN buffer x2 for users of HD Native.

-If you’re not using SoundGrid processing at all, the total latency depends on your PT Native buffer + SoundGrid system A/D, D/A and network buffer:
A/D latency – less than 1 ms
SoundGrid ASIO/Core Audio driver latency – 4 ms
D/A latency – less than 1 ms

Sounds like the waves box adds a millisecond to the chain. A native plug in is no latency, normally. So, why use it? I just don't get this product.

[propower]

Originally Posted by Brandonx1

Sounds like the waves box adds a millisecond to the chain. A native plug in is no latency, normally. So, why use it? I just don't get this product.

I think you need to re-read what I already posted (if you care).

HDN at 96kHz/64buffer is 1.8ms latency (with zero latency plugins)
The Waves system at 96kHz/64buffer is 1.3ms latency (with zero latency plugins)

At any other buffer setting HDN latency increases - Waves does not - it stays at 1.3ms.

Thats what its for.

[Brandonx1]

How dos it do that? It has to go out the hardware buffer and back in, right? Then it takes 1.3ms to work.

[propower]

Originally Posted by Brandonx1

How dos it do that? It has to go out the hardware buffer and back in, right? Then it takes 1.3ms to work.

No - it bypasses the hardware buffer - that's the point. You use pro tools but the "Playback Engine" is Waves Soundgrid. The lash up is your Digi i/o to the Waves box, Ethernet from Waves box into computer. Thats it. No HD Native needed - and in many ways using it WITH HD native although doable is not its most high performance way. It is a COMPETING system really to HD Native (so I say at least) - And YES - a total of 1.3ms RTL (at 96kHz) at any buffer setting and AVID i/o - with up to four Waves zero latency plugs! No CPU load at all to do this.

It is a kind of weird system to wrap your head around - you have to read a bunch and watch their videos if you want to understand. The marketing is very confusing.

But it is an dsp system that works (right now) with Waves only plug ins. Very analogous to Apollo/UA plugins/Console for tracking - sort of.