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  #51  
Old 02-18-2009, 02:39 PM
25ghosts 25ghosts is offline
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Default Re: So Digi, What is up with Structure ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by RussUK View Post
Guys this is an interesting thread and I've sat back and read as it's progressed. I have to say that whilst it's easy to offer complaints and criticisms that the same effort to be part of the solution is not as forthcoming form the community.
I think that it nonsense.

Quote:
AIR recently posted a thread requesting that users submit ESX samples that were causing them issues. Now anyone with an once of intuition would realize that this was a sign that the guys were working on trying to sort out a solution.
Russ, it aint just SOME EXS presets having problems it is ALL presets. Sorry, but it aint enough to translate a preset and be able to hear the sound, that particular preset HAS to sound like the programmers intended. And it does not do that on Structure. If AIR cannot hear that, without me and a bunch of other people sending in a bunch of examples, then I seriously have to doubt their place in the sampling industry. My deaf grandmother, carrying a bunch of hearing aids, could hear that something is rotten in Structure's tomato.

Quote:
We re-ran this request on the Blog and from our tracking stats know that the uptake on this request was very small. In a single day the response to upload ESX samples with issues accounted for less than 0.01% of the download of FREE samples from the blog and has been repeated every day since. To put that into a real number that's a about a 1,000 hits a day, so do the math.
Above statement is totally useless, as I stated, anyone having heard the original sample patch from the EXS or Kontakt Patch can hear that, whatever the original sample programmer had in mind, got lost in translation. You have the software and you probably have access to a few patches yourself. So what do you need our patches for. I know, quite a few, having bought Structure but they aint using it for this reason. But most of those guys are not going to take the time to send you examples. They are simply gonna put Structure in the Unused Plug-in Folder. As the time sending you examples would cost them more than what Structure's acquisition did.

Quote:
This leads me to deduce that either:
a) There is no issue with sample import into Structure (which we all know is patently untrue)
b) Although AIR are trying to address this issue, the majority of users are not really that bothered at finding a solution.

So come on guys, lets work with DTS and AIR on this, everyone wants a solution, but the more we help AIR in finding out what the issue is the quicker we will all have them.
As Structure was released as a public beta, I personally reported ALL this. ONLY to find that it was totally neglected in the release.
You want a solution.... OK, then I will give you ONE that works. Give me a Time limited full version of Structure. Lets say 16 Days. Within those 16 days, I Promise that I will give you video with audio examples on at least 20 BUGS residing within Structure. BUGS, which have been there, ignored, since day ONE.
If you then fix those bugs and put it into a release, then I will gladly PURCHASE the full version myself.

Now, that is an offer, that if your statement above is to be taken seriously, you cannot refuse.



Quote:
Peter has been open about the shortcomings of AIR during this transition into Digi/Avid in his interview http://airvirtualinstruments.blogspo...ad-of-air.html
The time it took to give that interview, he could have read bug reports and started to come up with a fix, which to a programmer of his caliber,(Darbuka & Latigo), should be plenty simple. We aint talking quantum physics here, just a little translation. MachFive2 translates PERFECTLY from EXS or K2 or K3 to its format. Kontakt 2 and 3 translates perfectly to their own format from other formats. And so does EXS24. If they can do it, why cant AIR.

Quote:
Some of you are aware that I started the blog to address some of the issues that had been raised about AIR on the DUC in the last year and I know that it only takes a mouth to criticise, so who else wants to be part of the solution?
Well, the public-beta-watergate of Structure, surely proved that NO ONE even remotely listened to ANTHING the testers were reporting. If they were listening they weren't hearing. Because ALL those things were WRITTEN prior to Structure's initial public candidate release
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  #52  
Old 02-18-2009, 03:06 PM
PhilBuckle PhilBuckle is offline
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Default Re: So Digi, What is up with Structure ?

Nicely put Ghostly one.
I might add that it's a little galling to be misled by the advertising and then to be reprimanded for not "joining the team" to send in problematic samples.

But I will help you out with an example.

Take the entire "Sonic Implants Symphonics String Collection" EXS edition.

Well really you need one Instrument only.

Load aforementioned Instrument into Structure.

What follows is a description of the sound it makes..........







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  #53  
Old 02-18-2009, 03:13 PM
Wolfram K's Avatar
Wolfram K Wolfram K is offline
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Default Re: So Digi, What is up with Structure ?

Hey DUCers,
sorry for letting you wait. But not only the time zones but also the everyday work of inventing, updating and expanding AIR instruments demands some time tribute every now and then. Your criticism is welcome (and the kind words that mentioned the good sides of Structure are too).
AIR hears you, I hear you and I can totally understand your frustration in many of the mentioned points. As Russ stated correctly above we're aware and open about the shortcomings with Structure and it shouldn't be that hard to come to the conclusion that we're attacking these as I write. I'm not supposed to reveal specific dates or details but many of the issues mentioned in this thread are on the list for the next release (I have to face these mean bugs every day) and it should be obvious that their priority is the higher, the bigger and more common users' complaints are. (Most of us at AIR are heavy (VI) users ourselves.) So I beg your pardon and patience with Structure and would like to emphasize what Russ just said: Any kind of help in the form of detailed bug reports or sending in EXS/Kontakt patches (to air-support@avid.com) is highly appreciated and is a small step (and a giant leap) towards a greatly improved and even expanded sampler for you.

Keep up the discussion as well as both the criticism and great feature ideas.
I believe that this frank and detailed feedback can make a difference in the end.

Have good day or night depending on which time zone you're in,

Wolfram Knelangen
Product Manager
AIR Virtual Instruments
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  #54  
Old 02-18-2009, 03:17 PM
ankely ankely is offline
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Default Re: So Digi, What is up with Structure ?

Thanks Wolf !!!
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  #55  
Old 02-18-2009, 03:20 PM
RussUK RussUK is offline
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Default Re: So Digi, What is up with Structure ?

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Originally Posted by 25ghosts View Post
I think that it nonsense.



Russ, it aint just SOME EXS presets having problems it is ALL presets. Sorry, but it aint enough to translate a preset and be able to hear the sound, that particular preset HAS to sound like the programmers intended. And it does not do that on Structure. If AIR cannot hear that, without me and a bunch of other people sending in a bunch of examples, then I seriously have to doubt their place in the sampling industry. My deaf grandmother, carrying a bunch of hearing aids, could hear that something is rotten in Structure's tomato.



Above statement is totally useless, as I stated, anyone having heard the original sample patch from the EXS or Kontakt Patch can hear that, whatever the original sample programmer had in mind, got lost in translation. You have the software and you probably have access to a few patches yourself. So what do you need our patches for. I know, quite a few, having bought Structure but they aint using it for this reason. But most of those guys are not going to take the time to send you examples. They are simply gonna put Structure in the Unused Plug-in Folder. As the time sending you examples would cost them more than what Structure's acquisition did.



As Structure was released as a public beta, I personally reported ALL this. ONLY to find that it was totally neglected in the release.
You want a solution.... OK, then I will give you ONE that works. Give me a Time limited full version of Structure. Lets say 16 Days. Within those 16 days, I Promise that I will give you video with audio examples on at least 20 BUGS residing within Structure. BUGS, which have been there, ignored, since day ONE.
If you then fix those bugs and put it into a release, then I will gladly PURCHASE the full version myself.

Now, that is an offer, that if your statement above is to be taken seriously, you cannot refuse.





The time it took to give that interview, he could have read bug reports and started to come up with a fix, which to a programmer of his caliber,(Darbuka & Latigo), should be plenty simple. We aint talking quantum physics here, just a little translation. MachFive2 translates PERFECTLY from EXS or K2 or K3 to its format. Kontakt 2 and 3 translates perfectly to their own format from other formats. And so does EXS24. If they can do it, why cant AIR.



Well, the public-beta-watergate of Structure, surely proved that NO ONE even remotely listened to ANTHING the testers were reporting. If they were listening they weren't hearing. Because ALL those things were WRITTEN prior to Structure's initial public candidate release
Ghost.
1. You speak to me as if I work for AIR/Digi. Neither is the case, I'm an end user like you, but just wanted to make a difference.
2. Peter delayed answering the interview for 2 months because he was committed to dealing with these kind of things. In the end he answered them in the small hours of the morning, just to get them done. They still have very very limited time to work with the blog for the exact same reason, so perhaps you shouldn't make assumptions about how they prioritise their time - your assumptions are wrong.
3. Some of us here using Structure have already been through major issues such as the 2 year wait for MOTU to deal with the Mach V II fiasco, or the Spectrasonics Intel Atmosphere and Trilogy issue, which was never dealt with in a satisfactory manner. Kontakt continues to have major issues, that's not to justify the issues that Structure has, just to put it in the context of other vendors in the same market. Having used all of them, Structure is the best of all the them.
4. I'm doing a lot of importing as part of my continued research for the blog, your assertion that Structure doesn't import anything correctly is wrong - period. And I'm using the finished version not a beta.
5. Watergate was a cover up and conspiracy, the issues with Structure are neither, I think you watch too many films!

None of these comments are meant to diminish the genuine concerns that we all share, but if we really want a result let's work with Digi/AIR to try and get that as soon as possible. If anyone wants to help on a more general basis or want to continue this discussion so I can gather things to feedback to AIR email me airusersblog AT gmail DOT com
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  #56  
Old 02-18-2009, 03:23 PM
PhilBuckle PhilBuckle is offline
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Default Re: So Digi, What is up with Structure ?

Hi Wolfram, great to have you here.
Did you know that Structure could cause a mass migration of composers to the PT
platform?
All you have to do is match or exceed The EXS24.

You can do it!!!!
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  #57  
Old 02-18-2009, 03:28 PM
25ghosts 25ghosts is offline
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Default Re: So Digi, What is up with Structure ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wolfram K View Post
Hey DUCers,
Cut to the chase......(Most of us at AIR are heavy (VI) users ourselves.)
I know what you mean, all that comfort-eating made my ass gain a few pounds ass well, trying to make Structure budge.....

Quote:
So I beg your pardon and patience with Structure and would like to emphasize what Russ just said: Any kind of help in the form of detailed bug reports or sending in EXS/Kontakt patches (to air-support@avid.com) is highly appreciated and is a small step (and a giant leap) towards a greatly improved and even expanded sampler for you.
I have more than 500 GigaBytes worth of samples that Structure cannot deal with. How much of it do you need. And where are all the examples that other users have been sending, since Structure was first released.

I am willing to help. Sign me in as a beta tester. Then, I will report to you, personally, ALL the bugs I know of, and exactly how to, reliably, reproduce them. You can have audio/video examples etc. And it wont take long. As a matter of fact. I should have a list of most your problems within a day. Then we can report here,on DUC, all the findings. And then everybody will know exactly where the bugs are and which ones are going to be fixed in the next release.

I dont want no freebee, I want this thing here to work. And I am offering my time to help you the best that I can. And I WILL buy the software if you can make it work right. Or should I say, as you advertised it...

you can hit me here, if you want.

25 [at] twentyfiveghosts [dot] com
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  #58  
Old 02-18-2009, 03:34 PM
RussUK RussUK is offline
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Default Re: So Digi, What is up with Structure ?

25 edit your email address or the spambots will harvest it, it sounds like you have enough issues with Structure to have to deal with Spam too!
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  #59  
Old 02-18-2009, 03:44 PM
25ghosts 25ghosts is offline
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Default Re: So Digi, What is up with Structure ?

RussUK,

I am using MachFive2 as you and I debate, this here, delicate topic. This thing is far from being a fiasco, it is more like the second coming

Jokes aside, MachFive2 is a great piece of software with a very original and great library. To open any EXS or NKI format, even Kontakt3 all I gotta do is drag and drop it onto M5. And it reads, perfectly. And that every time. Oh, and it is also a stand alone.

In addition, I can browse 10 presets with samples in M5 by the time I have fumbled thru' Structure's miles of drop down menus, not to mention it's impeccably and notorious long loading times.

So to bash MF5 and call it a fiasco to prove your point that Structure is a great sampler, is to me, as acid is to a beautiful face of a darling woman.

PS - I referred to Watergate, which to me is synonymous to bad. Which the watergate incident was. If you wanna dig deeper into WHY it was bad, yes, then you will find words like conspiracy written on the chalk board. But I wasn't going that deep.
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  #60  
Old 02-18-2009, 03:45 PM
25ghosts 25ghosts is offline
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Default Re: So Digi, What is up with Structure ?

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25 edit your email address or the spambots will harvest it, it sounds like you have enough issues with Structure to have to deal with Spam too!
I have got some pretty good SPAM filters.... But thanks for the warning
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