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Old 08-29-2013, 12:32 PM
albee1952 albee1952 is offline
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Default ADC weirdness

Okay, I have 1 audio track with no plugins(10 minutes of pink noise). 2 Aux tracks with room mics for talkback. The AUX tracks have 2 instances of Channel Strip for limiting(of mic volume) and ducking from the Pink noise track. If I set the pink track to any output(or none) Delay Comp does nothing(as expected). I can add a send to the bus for side-chaining to the duckers. BUT, if I try to set the pink track's OUTPUT to the bus, ADC adds compensation of 1177 samples, for no apparent reason. Anybody got an idea why?
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Last edited by albee1952; 08-29-2013 at 02:05 PM.
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Old 09-01-2013, 07:13 AM
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Chief Technician Chief Technician is offline
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Exclamation Re: ADC weirdness

Where does that bus go? Using "dummy" outputs with delay compensation is a bad idea. The delay compensation engine is not smart enough to realize that a "dummy" output does not need compensation. The delay compensation will try (erroneously) to compensate for the delay on a "dummy" output, not get it right, and screw it up.

dummy = output to nowhere
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Old 09-01-2013, 09:28 AM
albee1952 albee1952 is offline
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Default Re: ADC weirdness

That bus is to feed the sidechain input of 2 compressors(to duck the talkback mics), so, technically, its not a dummy bus, but it sure acts like it is. So, if I use a send to the bus and set the track's output to NONE, it works as expected(so I guess that's how I have to run it). The drawback there is, with no output for the track, the meter will not show any signal, even though there actually IS a signal. Just one more analog "oddity" that Avid engineers can't seem to grasp(like pre-fade sends that pass audio when the track is muted.....). We need some new options in preferences(and yes, I already dropped these on ideascale).
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Old 09-02-2013, 12:31 PM
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Question Re: ADC weirdness

Are you using HDX? If not, this might be one of the things that would be resolved by upgrading to HDX. I know there are certain scenarios where delay compensation cannot properly be done with Native or TDM.
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Old 09-02-2013, 05:50 PM
albee1952 albee1952 is offline
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Default Re: ADC weirdness

As it says in my signature, running a 003(would LOVE to go HDX but its too much $ for my clientele). Debating moving to HDN in the near future. A used card with some second-hand 192's would make the entry cost reasonable. I suspect the delay comp thing is a bug, due to how many folks report odd issues with AUX tracks and ADC. I can deal with it
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Old 09-04-2013, 11:51 AM
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Default Re: ADC weirdness

I read a few posts about side chaining not working correctly with ADC.... From what I could tell it is a bug.
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Old 09-06-2013, 08:39 AM
zakco zakco is offline
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Default Re: ADC weirdness

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chief Technician View Post
I know there are certain scenarios where delay compensation cannot properly be done with Native or TDM.
I have been tearing my hear out with ADC in PT10 TDM. Could you please elaborate on these specific situations? It would be REALLY valuable to know that I don't have to continually trouble shoot in a desparate attempt to understand when/why ADC is not working properly.

Thanks.
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Old 09-06-2013, 09:43 AM
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Post Re: ADC weirdness

Quote:
Originally Posted by zakco View Post
I have been tearing my hear out with ADC in PT10 TDM. Could you please elaborate on these specific situations? It would be REALLY valuable to know that I don't have to continually trouble shoot in a desparate attempt to understand when/why ADC is not working properly.

Thanks.
One of the scenarios involves "dummy" outputs. These are bus outputs that are never routed to the input of another channel.

Another scenario involves inserting an RTAS plug-in between TDM plug-ins. This can create havoc with ADC.

ADC on sidechains is not available on TDM systems.
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Old 09-06-2013, 09:58 AM
demodigi demodigi is offline
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Default Re: ADC weirdness

Quote:
Originally Posted by albee1952 View Post
Okay, I have 1 audio track with no plugins(10 minutes of pink noise). 2 Aux tracks with room mics for talkback. The AUX tracks have 2 instances of Channel Strip for limiting(of mic volume) and ducking from the Pink noise track. If I set the pink track to any output(or none) Delay Comp does nothing(as expected). I can add a send to the bus for side-chaining to the duckers. BUT, if I try to set the pink track's OUTPUT to the bus, ADC adds compensation of 1177 samples, for no apparent reason. Anybody got an idea why?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chief Technician View Post
Where does that bus go? Using "dummy" outputs with delay compensation is a bad idea. The delay compensation engine is not smart enough to realize that a "dummy" output does not need compensation. The delay compensation will try (erroneously) to compensate for the delay on a "dummy" output, not get it right, and screw it up.

dummy = output to nowhere
Chief Technician is right. Even if your bus is going to a sidechain key input of a compressor, your bus, albee1952, is going to nowhere else (and the ADC algorithm is a bit lost). If you want to output your audio track to a sidechain key input, 2 options :

1/ you must create a "dummy" muted Aux track (sidechain bus = input, "mix" output = output) then ADC algo could calculate the proper delay (here = 0).
2/ or use Sends like you did.

Quote:
Originally Posted by zakco
I have been tearing my hear out with ADC in PT10 TDM. Could you please elaborate on these specific situations? It would be REALLY valuable to know that I don't have to continually trouble shoot in a desparate attempt to understand when/why ADC is not working properly.
AFAIK, busses simply have to be terminated*. Especially, if there is complex/unusual routing using busses leading to another bus or to "nowhere" or to plugins.

* = make sure all your busses are routed to an aux track (even if you don't need one, then use an dummy aux track like described above). Note that busses routed to audio track are not terminated except if input monitoring is ON (HD only) or if RECord is armed.
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Last edited by demodigi; 09-06-2013 at 10:05 AM. Reason: EDIT for clarification
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Old 09-06-2013, 01:11 PM
zakco zakco is offline
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Default Re: ADC weirdness

Quote:
Originally Posted by demodigi View Post
AFAIK, busses simply have to be terminated*. Especially, if there is complex/unusual routing using busses leading to another bus or to "nowhere" or to plugins.

* = make sure all your busses are routed to an aux track (even if you don't need one, then use an dummy aux track like described above). Note that busses routed to audio track are not terminated except if input monitoring is ON (HD only) or if RECord is armed.
Interesting. Does a physical output count as "terminated"?
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