APFS or Extended Journaled for session drive?

[Frank Kruse]

Originally Posted by Darryl Ramm

which is also basically what I just said... but we do not know what other processing, manipulation you may be doing to files. I expect this to not be an issue for most users. It can be an issue for things like older designed databases, and sometimes databases get embedded in software your would never expect. I just want users to be aware that it may be possible to run into cases of pathological performance with APFS on HDD...

---

I am not sure what the argument going on is here...

Not arguing at all. I guess I didn't understand fully what you meant by simple editing makes no difference but editing that changes actual media on disk did, which is why I wasn't seeing any difference in PT. We're probably saying the same thing.

Someone asked if APFS makes a difference in PT and I reported my findings on a 12-core 5,1 mac. That's it. YMMV.

[DetroitT]

Both!
Back when I came into Mojave after several install test times -
HFS+, APFS need to share a bit more.

Active sessions, HFS+ for convenience.

Libraries 2-10TB (or Greater) spinners-APFS into Volumes = best for my system and going forward.
Online Data spinners (8TB <)

[Oliver M]

Originally Posted by Darryl Ramm

Worrying about boot time "problems" for NVMe or APFS seems silly,

In terms of what?
There are problems with it and ignoring the fact doesn't help the issue.
Whenever I have APFS formatted drives attached to my audio Macs (Mac Pros 5,1, 6 and 12-Core) I see such boot delays.
And its random, the delays do not always occur but often enough so that it pisses me off.

To call this a silly problem is arrogant and ignorant.

Believe me that I tried all kind of things, I have tested more M.2 SSDs than anyone else around here, AHCI & NVMe, tons of PCIe cards to carry them, I have tested tons of GPUs as well. Tested with and without all my PCIe cards sitting in the slots. Its been nailed down to APFS.

You may have your theory knowledge from PDF data or something, I have actually tested real world scenarios, myself!

I am sticking to HFS+ on my 5,1 MPs, especially for the Startup (HFS+) drive, even though its complicated to keep it up to date with security updates as Apple blocked HFS+ drives from updating the OS directly.

I think we won't find a solution to those issues but claiming that they are silly is inappropriate.

[Darryl Ramm]

It sure seems silly to me that you keep complaining about this, and when you list what you have tried not a single one of those things is anything I would try if facing this. Have you tried a simple google search? Why for example am I not seeing mentions you have excluded the "spaceman_trim_free_blocks" know issue, or upgraded macOS to a version that fixes that? There are many great threads out there about boot time issues and fixes, including that issue and more. I have never been able to follow a coherent thread you have posted describing exactly what problem you have, with exactly what configuration and versions of stuff you have, and exactly what clear troubleshooting you have tried. Most of your posts tend be more like you throwing out a little detail and then whining about the boot time, and as a consequence you set yourself up to be ignored. I don't doubt you are seeing issues, but I do suspect you have not troubleshot them as well as you could have. But keep posting here... and I will keep warning folks to ignore you...

[musicman691]

Originally Posted by Darryl Ramm

It sure seems silly to me that you keep complaining about this, and when you list what you have tried not a single one of those things is anything I would try if facing this. Have you tried a simple google search? Why for example am I not seeing mentions you have excluded the "spaceman_trim_free_blocks" know issue, or upgraded macOS to a version that fixes that? There are many great threads out there about boot time issues and fixes, including that issue and more. I have never been able to follow a coherent thread you have posted describing exactly what problem you have, with exactly what configuration and versions of stuff you have, and exactly what clear troubleshooting you have tried. Most of your posts tend be more like you throwing out a little detail and then whining about the boot time, and as a consequence you set yourself up to be ignored. I don't doubt you are seeing issues, but I do suspect you have not troubleshot them as well as you could have. But keep posting here... and I will keep warning folks to ignore you...

Keep on warning folks Darryl - I've been through this same malarkey with Oliver M. before. There's one thing I can say for him and that is that he's consistent.

As I mentioned I did some Googling and one of the things I found that seemed to be the majority cause and that's having trim enabled in early revisions of High Sierra. Some even mentioned that later revisions fixed the issue but didn't see what explicit OSX fixed the issue. All I know is that I've not had any issue with boot slowdown with OSX 10.13.6 and APFS.

[JFreak]

Guys if it was so easy to google all the answers why would we have DUC to begin with?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Darryl Ramm]

Originally Posted by JFreak

Guys if it was so easy to google all the answers why would we have DUC to begin with?

In this case, where stuff has *nothing* to do with Pro Tools and presents itself in such an obvious glaring pain in the ass way... then focusing on DUC is likely a waste of time. There are hundreds of past threads on the interwebs about boot time issues with Cheesegraters and other Macs, ... with NVMe drives, APFS etc., multiple separate issues, ranging from POST sequences, to TRIM issues, to APFS bugs.... and *many* of those include important solutions where folk have seen problems. If folks want help from others on DUC... then maybe explain exactly what has been tried, which of those know issues have been checked and did not help, provide exact configs etc. ... and clearly in this case it's not an issue lots of folks here are seeing.

[JFreak]

Enough with the name calling?

[Oliver M]

Originally Posted by Darryl Ramm

It sure seems silly to me that you keep complaining about this, and when you list what you have tried not a single one of those things is anything I would try if facing this.

Yeah, because your knowledge is insufficient.
You think you are "Mr. Know It All" when most of the things you post is rubbish.

Have you tried a simple google search?

No, I am stupid, what is Google? I investigate on known forums to learn things before I try to accomplish them myself. And I "talk" to professionals every once in a while. How about you?

Why for example am I not seeing mentions you have excluded the "spaceman_trim_free_blocks" know issue, or upgraded macOS to a version that fixes that?

Because a) it is none of your business as I never invited you for an answer an b) 10.14.6 should be a qualified OS for APFS, no?

There are many great threads out there about boot time issues and fixes, including that issue and more.

Really? But yet no fix for it. What are you trying to tell me here, come up with solutions!

I have never been able to follow a coherent thread you have posted describing exactly what problem you have, with exactly what configuration and versions of stuff you have, and exactly what clear troubleshooting you have tried.

This is because I actually seldom have problems and if so rarely post about them. You are making things up as it seems. I rather help than seeking for help, smartypants.

I only post when I read stuff that is not true, or not right. I do not think I ever asked for help in here lately. I actually did not ask for help within this thread, you make this up.

I just stated that APFS is nowhere ready for audio. And I know things I cannot talk about.

I was asked what the issues are and replied. I never asked for help. You are a liar by claiming the opposite.

Most of your posts tend be more like you throwing out a little detail and then whining about the boot time, and as a consequence you set yourself up to be ignored.

What?? Me, whining? You insult me for no reason.

I don't doubt you are seeing issues, but I do suspect you have not troubleshot them as well as you could have.

Yeah right, I am not only supporting all my friends who run Macs for 30 years (aaah since 1991 to be precise), I am also a total amateur while you are the pro.


No one is as good as you, WE GOT THAT.

[musicman691]

Originally Posted by JFreak

Enough with the name calling?

Janne - now you know what I've been talking about in another thread about Oliver M - it goes beyond any language or cultural differences. You know me - I try and help where I can but sometimes people just don't seem to want help. This thread is evident why he's no longer a moderator here.