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  #1  
Old 10-12-2003, 06:54 AM
Diesel10 Diesel10 is offline
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Default Newbie help with basic questions

Dear kind users of the DUC-
Thanks so much to the kind souls who have offered much advice to my previous questions which can only be described as “newbiesque”
I now seek your further guidance.
I have been using PT 6.1 for a couple weeks to record songs with a couple acoustic guitars some bass and vocal tracks. I have been experimenting with Reason and can make some funky sounds – but that really does me no good.
I’d like to start really recording. Which for me would be to loop rock drum patterns (nothing fancy – a small kit, a straight ahead beat- think Replacements or REM or The Beatles or...). Picking out a couple drum patterns for Verse, chorus, a half bar fill etc.- Then play some rhythm and lead guitar over it , add some bass, couple vocal parts, a keyboard pad (organ, strings or something), stir, heat to 350 and serve.
So… ummm… help?
I’ve been trying to learn about midi (I’ve generally been a roll tape and record the band live guy when in studio) and how Reason works and I have bought manuals & guides and read various websites religiously- but complete comprehension is remaining tantalizingly out of reach and what with 2 jobs and 2 kids and 2 wives (well- Ok only 1 wife, but sometimes…) I feel like it will take 5 years before I can find enough time to read it all and understand and really get started.
So – can I buy a cd of rock drum loops and just import the various parts into PT, mapping out my songs? Would it be better to go through Reason? What is the best CD to get for this purpose and do I need additional software to run it? Once I get the drum beat in, I’m fairly confident I can play the guitars and do the vocals, but the keyboard pads- should I play them live through Reason into PT or does it make more sense to program them in Reason and then import it into PT (I assume that makes sense and can work and there is a way to match up the parts so they’re in time).
Is there some FAQ some where that can guide me through this without 300 pages of extraneous material?
Once again- thank you all for your patience and assistance.
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  #2  
Old 10-12-2003, 07:00 AM
DesertDude DesertDude is offline
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Default Re: Newbie help with basic questions

I would try to fins a mentor in your area who could walk you through the process. You will get there faster...


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  #3  
Old 10-12-2003, 07:13 AM
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Cliffy_Boy Cliffy_Boy is offline
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Default Re: Newbie help with basic questions

For me the key was a solid drum track that was flexible but let me start recording scratch tracks to get the overall composition. I tried many midi loop packages but most were set up as 2 bars and it took an incredible amount of time to start compiling a track. Then I found Reeldrums - audio loops set up as a whole song 3.5 minutes long. I could play to it and get a feel for my composition since the loops are arrange as a verse, fill, bridge, chorus, verse2 layout. They import easiliy into PT as a session with 10 or so tracks - 1 for each drum. Extremely easy to shuffle, add regions or remove. I used to spend days getting a basic drum track, now they work straight out of the box. With the drum track in place so quickly, I start laying down guitar, then bass then keyboards scratch (rough take) tracks. Then I go back and play with the drums and very easily move or add regions, lengthen choruses, shorten verses and get the final drum track. In minutes. The sound is great - no midi latency. Midi loops are good to play with tempo though. Also check out Multilopps.com and Discretedrums.com. These are all in PT session format so you don't have to import audio for each track. The regions are all preprepared. Now I load one of the 23 songs, start jamming, pick the groove I think works best, Import Session Data then start composing.
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  #4  
Old 10-12-2003, 01:37 PM
Diesel10 Diesel10 is offline
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Default Re: Newbie help with basic questions

Thanks for the good info Cliffy. What do you mean by "I load one of the 23 songs"? - do you mean on the sample CD disk?
I've also heard a bit on this site about Drumkit From Hell? Have you tried that? Would that be good for my purposes?
Thanks
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  #5  
Old 10-12-2003, 02:12 PM
Homebelly Homebelly is offline
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Default Re: Newbie help with basic questions

If you already have REASON then i think you've got a couple of choices.First,as you have mentioned,is DFH/DFH add on pack,,this slips right into REASON and sounds awsom,
You could also take a look at SPECTRASONICS Groove controle serries,,the most obviouce one would be BACKBEAT,,or even RETROFUNK.These are both a collection of drum loops played on real kits by some killing drummers and then prosessed through different desks and FX.The loops are arranged as songs,ie intro verse,chorus,,ect.They are also RECYCLED so you can import them into REASON's NN-XT bring the MIDI files into the sequencer and your away,,works realy well and is a breeze to use.
Also the Discreat drums and Real Drums packages are great as well,,i've not had a lot of time with these but i've seen them working,,and i've heard them on finnised work and they cant be foulted.
At the end of the day,,it's unlikly that you'll find any thing straight out of the box that is going to be perfect,,if you go the Samples into Reason route you will need to edit your parts using midi,if you go the Discreat Drums way,,you will need to edit your parts using the Audio.
Like i said,,if you already have REASON,,then i feel the DFH would be the way to go.It comes with a bunch of midi files so you can load them up and use them as a place to start.
If you want to get a feel of programing REASON with a nice acoustic kit try this link SOME NICE DRUMS You will need to do a search of the forum section for the whole file,,but your looking for the NS6 kit in the sound font format,,it's available on the site as several files,,but there is currently no recompiler avaialable for OXS.However,in the forum some one has posted a link to the whole kit as one file.Reason will import SF2 files,,i use this kit once in a while and it sounds prety good,,pluss it's free,,whats better than that??
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  #6  
Old 10-12-2003, 02:21 PM
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Cliffy_Boy Cliffy_Boy is offline
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Default Re: Newbie help with basic questions

REELDRUMS comes already set up as a "song". This means all of the regions are set up side by side rather than as a million little clips waiting to be loaded on the relevant track. So, I hit play and I hear a real drummer playing 4 bars of a verse than a few bars of a chorus than a slightly different verse etc. All of the fills and breaks are in a logical place along the playlist timeline. If by some miracle your song has the identical measures as the reeldrum song your laughing. If not, a few copies and pastes and your done. By 23 songs, each series of regions are arranged as a song ( as described above) with a particular beat, style, mood etc. So for a soft rock song, there are 4 different reeldrum songs that would work and I can use one of them and move regions here and there or I can import regions from other "songs"". Each "song" is on a separate CD making it easy to load.
Drumkit from Hell is a top quality series of drumhits. They must be triggered from a midi track and each midi note corresponds to a particicular drum. Unless you're a drummer, you would by midi sequences for drums and cobble them all together. Lot of work, You also have to make sure that you are using a sampler so that the drum hits load to a note and the midi note assigns to the sampler etc etc. Not complicated. BTW - Drumkit from Hell 2 has a built in sampler based on Kompakt by native Instruments so you already have a well mapped system. Now you need to find good loops that correspond to the right drums. Some are GM but many are not. Thats why I chose Reeldrums. I do lose the flexibility of easily changing tempos and if it becomes a problem to me, Serato here I come. You can download a demo from Reeldrums and multiloops. You get a session.pts file which you save to your HD. Click open and PT opens up with all the audio ready ro play. The sound is the best I've heard. Check it out.
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-Bricasti M7. -Joe Meek channel.


-Waves Mercury, Flux all, Softube All, Plugin Alliance all, McDSP all, Sonnox All, MH production, Wave Arts,a bunch more
-Moog Voyager XL, Nord Piano, Hartmann Neuron, ARP Axxe, Gibson Les Paul, Mesa Boogie Roadster, Kemper, Taylor T5 and T5-12
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  #7  
Old 10-12-2003, 04:00 PM
El CaCa El CaCa is offline
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Default Re: Newbie help with basic questions

I like what the poster above stated....You really should find someone in your area to come out and show you how to use Reason (and it's drum machine) If you're wanting to write songs (ie: scratch songs where you'll eventually use a real drummer) then Reason is perfect for that...Go to a music store and ask around...You may have to pay a couple of bucks, but in my opinion it's worth it...I've learned more watching people than reading manuals...

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  #8  
Old 10-19-2003, 01:54 PM
walkdaplank walkdaplank is offline
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Default Re: Newbie help with basic questions

I've enjoyed using plain ole' drum loops CD's...
I buy cheepies, they work just great for songwriting, and you don't spend 90+ bucks for the polish.
Check out the site www.betamonkeymusic.com (15 dollar loops CD's--approx. 1000 loops per CD)
the guy sells CD's for Acid (wav format),they drop right into stereo tracks in PT, and with a little touching up, I am able to focus on songwriting.

Hope this helps
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  #9  
Old 10-19-2003, 08:00 PM
MidnightFlyer MidnightFlyer is offline
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Default Re: Newbie help with basic questions

I've got a half-dozen drum loop cds, guys like Kramer, Gadd, and Charlie Morgan but I don't use any of them cause it seems like they're all trying to call attention to their playing. The patterns are almost always too busy for my needs, and there's seldom much variation in beats per minute. Since I'm still in OS9, not known for great midi, I've put off learning it, opting instead to really learn my drum machine well.

I would say to a newbie, as I was not long ago, don't expect too much your first year. Just keep learning and experimenting. Remember, you're in it for the long haul, and with every new session you will learn something. Don't be in a big hurry.
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