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  #51  
Old 07-20-2014, 07:38 PM
robertg robertg is offline
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Default Re: Is it just me?

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I'm not saying that they should ignore the tech, I'm saying that they shouldn't shove it down casual consumers (nor professional) throat without making sure it's well implemented first and without making sure they have other means to connect than to the thunderbolt port or through a shoddy adapter. That would have been the right thing to do, the smart thing to do, to leave the other ports also. So what that the laptop is 6 mm thinner, that the screen has gone down in size (which is a pain to edit and mix on without a secondary screen), fact is miniaturization for consumers is fine, not for professionals in most cases. I have no problem placing my laptop in it's flight case and be 99.9% sure that it's still going to be functional and unscratch when I take it out, vs it being light and small enough to fit into a carrying bag and having a lot more chances of it being damaged.

You should know that it's impossible for any new technology to be completely perfect out of the gate. As far as apple's track record for things being "ready to launch" - I'd say it's really excellent, they take great pains to get the details right. you can only predict and test so much, there are always configurations and certain 3rd party products which they cannot know completely until customers give feedback. There may be some glitches, but they usually get these right pretty soon, again.

So you say "leave the other ports also" - there isn't room for them! By your logic, every legacy port in existence can never go away, because you would be inconvenienced, they should have never eliminated the floppy or optical drives either, because maybe you have a disk to insert once in a blue moon. Give me a break! Do you even realize how ridiculous your point of view is?

And your argument about a smaller/thinner laptop being more susceptible to damage is equally nonsense. Take care of your stuff and it won't be damaged. It's unibody aluminum anyway and is already extremely sturdy.

i swear that some people bitch for the sake of bitching. Abandon apple if you can't keep up, get a plastic tank IBM notebook with serial ports on it so that you can use your old palm pilot without needing any adaptors while you yell at the kids outside to get off your lawn.
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  #52  
Old 07-20-2014, 09:20 PM
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Default Re: Is it just me?

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So you say "leave the other ports also" - there isn't room for them! By your logic, every legacy port in existence can never go away.
How factitious is that? optical drive is still in used today by a lot of people, it's no where legacy, and obviously I'm talking here of Ethernet and Firewire.. wait didn't I write that specifically in my previous post? Yes I did.

I guess this thing about miniaturization and the distant future for you is the exact same thing as a deer staying in the middle of the road at night....... kidding. But really we can go round and round and round arguing about this, but the real test is already ongoing and it's the market, with apples 9.3 percent world wide market share for computers sales (17% if you include the ipads and laptop), they do not have the weight to force the transition, when the vast majority of users on the planet are using other alternatives that does not cost them a couple of fingers. That is why the adoption of Thunderbolt is slow, because the market share is simply not there.
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  #53  
Old 07-20-2014, 09:22 PM
robertg robertg is offline
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Hor facticious is that, optical drive is still in used today by a lot of people, it's no where legacy, and obviously I'm talking here of Ethernet and Firewire.. wait didn't I write that specifically in my previous post? Yes I did.

I guess this thing about miniaturization and the distant future for you is the exact same thing as a deer staying in the middle of the road at night....... kidding. But really we can go round and round and round arguing about this, but the real test is already ongoing and it's the market, with apples 9.3 percent world wide market share for computers sales, they do not have the weight to force the transition, when the vast majority of users on the planet are using other alternatives that does not cost them a couple of fingers. That is why the adoption of Thunderbolt is slow, because the market share is simply not there.
give it time, it will pick up, especially now that new macs are no longer available with PCIe slots.
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  #54  
Old 07-20-2014, 09:27 PM
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No it won't, at least not in a timely fashion anyways (talking couple of years here as in maybe by 2025 if not later), that's what you don't seem to get, MAC only represent 9 % of the global market. that means 91% of the world is using non mac systems, which do not need thunderbolt. For it to take off, every other PC maker and Laptop maker would have to do exactly what apple did, to force the other devices manufacturers to push out more thunderbolt gear at a cheaper price. As long as Thunderbolt is priced this way (50$ for a 2 foot cable from a third party, 250$ for a 1 TB external Hardrive??????) it wont go off fast.

Anyways we could argue all year long on this but I think we've derailed this thread long enough.
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  #55  
Old 07-20-2014, 09:29 PM
robertg robertg is offline
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Default Re: Is it just me?

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NO it won't, not in a timely fashion anyways, that's what you don't seem to get, MAC only represent 9 % of the global market. that means 91% of the world is using non mac systems, which do not need thunderbolt.

Anyways we could argue all year long on this but I think we've derailed this thread long enough.
Sort of like how they said firewire would never go anywhere, yet every single audio interface in the world now is firewire?

You have zero credibility when you try and make a future prediction based on nonsense "market share" - blackberry had fantastic market share, and look what happened to them.
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  #56  
Old 07-20-2014, 09:52 PM
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Sort of like how they said firewire would never go anywhere, yet every single audio interface in the world now is firewire?

You have zero credibility when you try and make a future prediction based on nonsense "market share" - blackberry had fantastic market share, and look what happened to them.
I'm not the one making them, I can read well enough you know? And there are actual professionals hired to predict how the currents may go who not only works for big corporations but also many technology related issues. But just think a moment truthfully without bias. If Apple is only 9% of the pc global world use, are they really in a strong position to dictate a new tech to other manufacturers, or will these manufacturers go where there's the most profit to be made?

With that, I say goodnight "so long and thanks for all the fish!"
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  #57  
Old 07-20-2014, 10:00 PM
robertg robertg is offline
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Default Re: Is it just me?

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Originally Posted by Emcha_audio View Post
I'm not the one making them, I can read well enough you know? And there are actual professionals hired to predict how the currents may go. But just think a moment truthfully without bias. If Apple is only 9% of the pc global world use, are they really in a strong position to dictate a new tech to other manufacturers, or will these manufacturers go where there's the most profit to be made?
And the professionals who "predict things" are worth absolute squat, because of the aforementioned smartphone market for example. the iPhone shook everything up in 2007, that isn't bias, it's fact.

They also said the iPad would be a flop, lol.

The overall "market share" is slumping because people are realizing that they don't need real computers to browse Facebook and check email, instead tablets. It's pretty meaningless.

Now in the professional world, it's different. Firewire took hold for a reason. Universal audio has a thunderbolt Apollo model. There are TB PCie cards, etc. I don't precisely follow what's happening with TB in terms of what new is coming, but you can be sure that it's on the rise.
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  #58  
Old 07-21-2014, 04:03 PM
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Just to add to what I was saying, in 2013 the market of Thunderbolt did go up, but it still represent only 0.6% of the interconnect market globally from 0.1% in 2012. And with the new specs that came out last year for USB 3.1 which will jump to a 10 GPS and carry power of 100 watt (7.5w for regular cables, but the full 100 watt for the newer, where you'll be able to power your laptop, hub, screens from the usb cable) on it that will keep USB in the stronger position for a long while, slowing down even more the adoption of thunderbolt, mostly because they cost much less, it's well established, and also because we are not talking of a new gadget that is not existing here, but cables... The difference with Iphone and Ipad was that there was no other comparable product on the market at that time that drove the desire of people to want it, they wanted the new gadget that allowed them too watch videos, listen to music, video talk right on their phone, or be able to do what they could marginally do on their computers on their Ipad. When you're talking of the type of connection though.. it has a lot less attractions to people as they see it as an other mean to suck their wallet while offering them very little in return, the high cost and the very low return makes it pretty much unappealing for the vast majority of users beside tech geeks, compared to the Iphone or the Ipad which were brand new thing that weren't on the market and gave them real tangible benefits. You didn't answer my question before.

If Apple is only 9% of the pc global world use (17% if you include the laptops, iphone, ipad), 0.6% of the interconnect market, are they really in a strong position to dictate a new tech to other manufacturers, or will these manufacturers go where there's the most profit to be made? And considering that USB will again jump speed and power delivery, it's cost remaining low, and still hold the market dominance, where do you think most of the manufacturing power will go to? That's why I'm saying that one day maybe in 2025 we'll see thunderbolt as a good alternative money wise and market wise that's if USB doesn't push it out of play like it did with firewire, but yet still everyone seems to agree that even by 2017 THB won't even hold 6% of the interconnect market. Yes you'll say they were wrong before, but it's quite different talking about an entire new type of consumer product like the Iphone and the Ipad which brought a lot to the market... and a cable.

Anyways truly with this last post I'm done with keeping this thread derailed.
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  #59  
Old 07-21-2014, 04:14 PM
robertg robertg is offline
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Default Re: Is it just me?

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Originally Posted by Emcha_audio View Post
Just to add to what I was saying, in 2013 the market of Thunderbolt did go up, but it still represent only 0.6% of the interconnect market globally from 0.1% in 2012. And with the new specs that came out last year for USB 3.1 which will jump to a 10 GPS and carry power of 100 watt (7.5w for regular cables, but the full 100 watt for the newer) on it that will keep USB in the stronger position for a long while, slowing down even more the adoption of thunderbolt, mostly because they cost much less, it's well established, and also because we are not talking of a new gadget that is not existing here, but cables... The different with Iphone and Ipad was that there was no other comparable product on the market at that time that drove the desire of people to want it, they wanted the new gadget that allowed them too watch videos, listen to music, video talk right on their phone, or be able to do what they could marginally do on their computers on their Ipad. When you're talking of the type of connection though.. it has a lot less attractions to people as they see it as an other mean to suck their wallet while offering them very little in return, the high cost and the very low return makes it pretty much unappealing for the vast majority of users beside tech geeks, compared to the Iphone or the Ipad which were brand new thing that weren't on the market and gave them real tangible benefits. You didn't answer my question before.

If Apple is only 9% of the pc global world use (17% if you include the laptops, iphone, ipad), 0.6% of the interconnect market, are they really in a strong position to dictate a new tech to other manufacturers, or will these manufacturers go where there's the most profit to be made? And considering that USB will again jump speed and power delivery, it's cost remaining low, and still hold the market dominance, where do you think most of the manufacturing power will go to? That's why I'm saying that one day maybe in 2025 we'll see thunderbolt as a good alternative money wise and market wise, but yet still everyone seems to agree that even by 2017 THB won't even hold 6% of the market. Yes you'll say they were wrong before, but it's quite different talking about an entire new type of consumer product like the Iphone and the Ipad which brought a lot to the market... a cable.

Anyways truly with this last post I'm done with keeping this thread derailed.
The major flaw in your position is comparing USB 3 to Thunderbolt. They are not really competitors, that's one reason why the new mac pro has several USB 3 ports.

You also have to keep in mind that TB2 combines the two 10Gbps channels to a single 20Gbps bi-directional channel. It is superior to USB3.

It's not a zero sum game, both can exist. However, if you need the higher performance, more daisy-chained devices, TB is where it's at. Much like how firewire was superior to the old USB.

Music and video was possible on smart phones in 2007, but the interfaces sucked. The reason for iPhone's success is that they finally gave people what they wanted, a slick and easy to use interface that every other manufacturer ended up copying.
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