PT10 HD system can't cope with session created in PT10 (LE)

[Kasper]

You should have 192 voices.
Do you need more than that for this session?

How many voices are allocated/available? (system usage)
Are they dynamically allocated?

I would change all your plugs to DSP, if available. (until/if you hit the wall on TDM processing)

You have to make the unused tracks inactive to free up the resources or delete them.
Also, check if you have any hidden tracks stealing voices/power.


kasper

[Kasper]

Originally Posted by LizS

Okay so the peaking was because the guys who made the original track put everything but the vocals through an Aux, then through another Aux, then to a master.

Brilliant

[Bill@Avid]

Hi,

The couple of times I have run into an issue with running out of voices when opening a session on a system with DSP, that was created on a native system, it has had to do with having a mix of RTAS and DSP plug-ins on the same track.

For example a mono track takes one voice and if you use all DSP plug-ins it stays at the one voice. If you use all RTAS plug-ins it stays at one voice. If you add RTAS plug-ins before TDM plug-ins still one voice. If you add an RTAS plug-ins after the DSP plug-in it uses three voices. If you have your plug-ins on the track arranged DSP/RTAS/DSP/RTAS you are up to five voices. This would double on a stereo track (10), and triple on a 5.1 track (18). You can see how this would add up.

Kasper's suggestion would go a long way to alleviate some of this. Often times I will open that is running out of voices like this session holding down the Shift key so that all the plug-ins are inactive when it opens. I can then set about activating the plug-ins and converting them to DSP or RTAS as needed to cut down on voices being used.

If you run into a track that has a plug-in that only available as a native plug-in and it is inserted after a DSP plug-in/s if there are native versions of the DSP plug-in/s using them should save voices. The same is true if a plug-ins is only available as a DSP plug-in. RTAS plug-ins inserted before it are okay but to use the lease amount of voices you would need to use DSP plug-ins after it.

I hope this helps.

[bacchus40]

thank you for clearing that up... some very good info right there

[acmost]

Originally Posted by Bill@Avid

Hi,

The couple of times I have run into an issue with running out of voices when opening a session on a system with DSP, that was created on a native system, it has had to do with having a mix of RTAS and DSP plug-ins on the same track.

For example a mono track takes one voice and if you use all DSP plug-ins it stays at the one voice. If you use all RTAS plug-ins it stays at one voice. If you add RTAS plug-ins before TDM plug-ins still one voice. If you add an RTAS plug-ins after the DSP plug-in it uses three voices. If you have your plug-ins on the track arranged DSP/RTAS/DSP/RTAS you are up to five voices. This would double on a stereo track (10), and triple on a 5.1 track (18). You can see how this would add up.

Kasper's suggestion would go a long way to alleviate some of this. Often times I will open that is running out of voices like this session holding down the Shift key so that all the plug-ins are inactive when it opens. I can then set about activating the plug-ins and converting them to DSP or RTAS as needed to cut down on voices being used.

If you run into a track that has a plug-in that only available as a native plug-in and it is inserted after a DSP plug-in/s if there are native versions of the DSP plug-in/s using them should save voices. The same is true if a plug-ins is only available as a DSP plug-in. RTAS plug-ins inserted before it are okay but to use the lease amount of voices you would need to use DSP plug-ins after it.

I hope this helps.

but...the original poster mentioned that they couldn't even open up a third of the session when all the plugs were made RTAS only and the rest of the channels made inactive. Something sounds off.

[phatbeatstudio]

Originally Posted by Kasper

Brilliant

I used to do that because I could have a master fader on my Control24 ever 24channels. Does that eat up more voices. Please explain this to me.
I dont do that now because I have a monitor controller but I used to for a short time. Is that not a good idea why not .

[Bill@Avid]

I took another look through the original poster's posts and the session is described as "(90ish tracks, mostly stereo and 17 auxes)".

If this is the case it should probably open with the plug-ins made inactive but not necessarily with all plug-ins set as native.

If you have 90 stereo tracks in the session that gets you to 180 voices off the bat leaving you with twelve voices for other things. If there was a Master fader with a single native plug-in and four of 17 the stereo (guessing about the stereo) auxes had native plug-ins the session would be at 192 voices. Anything else that required a voice would push it over the edge. There are still 13 auxes unaccounted for that may also be using plug-ins of some kind.

An aux track takes no voices. An aux track with a DSP plug-ins takes no voices. An aux track with a single native plug-in takes two voices. If you place a Native plug-in after a DSP plug-in on the same stereo Aux input it takes an additional 4 voices.

A stereo master fader takes no voices. A stereo master fader with a DSP plug-in takes no voices. A stereo master fader with a native plug-in takes four voices. Phatbeatstudio does this answer your question?

The DSP/native/DSP/native voices increases voices rule from my last post applies to master and aux tracks as well.

So if opening the session with all plug-ins inactive is not possible it's time to look for hidden tracks that are pushing it past the 192 available voices.

If it opens with plug-in inactive the plug-ins on the auxes and master fader should be DSP plug-ins if possible. This would prevent them from using voices.

Again I hope this information is helpful

[Kasper]

Bill@Avid, thanks for the rundown on voices.
Is there a chart of this somewhere?

phatbeat, Bill pretty much has it covered, but I will add that it's just not good engineering practice. It's bad gain-staging/signal flow.

Just because you can bring down the clipping in a float/native system doesn't mean you should rely on it. There is just no need to run everything so hot.Especially if you are using any plugs/software that are emulating analog distortion characteristics or tape compression.

kasper

[bacchus40]

Originally Posted by Bill@Avid

I took another look through the original poster's posts and the session is described as "(90ish tracks, mostly stereo and 17 auxes)".

i'd say you're dead on the monkey... thanks for all the info...

[Bill@Avid]

Kasper,

There is no chart but there is a section in the Pro Tools reference guide that explains the behavior. In the 10.x guide it's on page 991 under the heading Voice Usage and Total Latency for Native (Host-Based) Plug-Ins. The specifics in my post come from watching voice allocation in the system usage window while working.