Subscription for Carbon driver?

[melodydetective]

Originally Posted by tetonica

Yes - that's the idea behind AVB which is part of the IEEE 802.1 open standard. Also to use AVB there's no licensing required (because is an open standard). With DANTE there's licensing required which means additional cost to use. Also Avid was clear that choosing AVB was because it is "future proof" and will still work many years down the line, just like good old MIDI

I understand that it’s the idea, and yet somehow when I hear “that should work” that means no as far as my business goes - because without an explicit guarantee followed by evidence of people doing things repeatably, thot won’t fly - I have deadlines. I’m not about assuming that everything would work. With a company that initially tried to get me to switch from paying an already high $399 a year to $799 a year, one must ask these questions.

Originally Posted by tetonica

Think this is subjective. In my case I compose music, but I do it with analog synths, drum machine, FM synth, guitar, bass and vocals and tend to avoid virtual instruments like the plague. So low-latency tracking (or jamming) with HDX DSP without the cost of Pro Tools Ultimate or HDX / DIGI hardware is exactly what I wanted. In fact I pre-ordered Avid|Carbon (still waiting for it to be shipped)

I don’t mean to imply anything about what someone writes with making them a composer or not. I mean that I score for picture, which is distinct from songwriting or even just composing that’s not for picture.

Originally Posted by tetonica

This option think was omitted by design. Just like other features like surround mixing requires Pro Tools Ultimate. But Avid|Carbon is marketed as "Music Production for Artist, Bands, Producers" which for the most part don't need surround or frame-edge sync capabilities. Personally I can't wait to get my hands on Avid|Carbon (can't believe I'm selling my Apogee Symphony Mkii)

I would say that in this day and age, because of the shattered music business and devaluation of our product and services, everyone who writes any music has to be ready for anything. Including editing something to picture to sell a license more easily, as an example. So what would have been great is - rather than their saying it doesn’t work for some post workflows - if they said, “if you are using digital video inside ProTools or with ProTools as MMC master, sync will be perfect. No other hardware needed (or even possible at the moment).” But they said it differently, and this makes me think their legal department had something to do with that (nothing unusual about that) but that it’s less about clarity for the consumer and more about covering them. I just want a clear answer from Avid, because I already know what “should” work. Haven’t gotten a reply yet.

Someone else asked me why I would buy it if I weren’t using it with ProTools. I’m not saying that at all. I’m saying that connecting it to a system that has never had ProTools on it and seeing if the drivers appear in the same way would determine if it’s truly a class-compliant device or if they install some software for it - possibly even in the PT2020.11 release. Why is this important? It ties you to paying them if you want to use the hardware you’ve bought already. They already have a license for using another interface than theirs, so one has to ask. This is based on the idea that I have issues with how PT software works as a scoring platform - old issues have not been fixed, MIDI is mostly ignored, and there’s no articulation management. I have used it for years in this setting, but I also use other things too. It makes good sense for me to have two platforms active at once, and I get that I won’t be able to use the DSP (other than for routing, I suppose- though they could write a UA Console-like app to do this and other things), but if I went a year without sequencing in ProTools I would still want my hardware to work without shelling out for the privilege. So I’m waiting for definitive word from Avid.

Kind of too bad that they haven’t worked out multiple devices yet - what about a little box with four stereo outs for headphones, or 2 ins for a synth or two outs for alternate speakers or a sub or what have you like Audinate does for Dante?

[francoisquereuil]

On the bundled software questions, hopefully I can clarify. We tried to keep it simple while hopefully catering for all types of new and existing users.

New PT user:
You use the included 1-year PT Standard subscription. This includes all Avid plugins and HEAT. If you choose to renew at the end of the term, you will pay the regular annual subscription price of $299 (paid up front).

Existing PT user on subscription:
You can choose to keep your subscription and use it on a separate system, and use the included 1-year PT Standard subscription. OR you can extend the terms of your existing subscription for 1 year (cool thing about that option is that you can do this regardless of your current flavor: PT Standard or PT Ultimate)

Existing PT perpetual user on a current support and update plan:
You can choose to keep your license and plan, and use it on a separate system, and use the included 1-year PT Standard subscription. OR you can extend the terms of your support plan for 1 year (cool thing about that option is that you can do this regardless of your current flavor: PT Standard or PT Ultimate)

All users who choose the included subscription with "perpetual parachute":
Renewal will be at the Pro Tools standard price ($299 per year paid up front). If you choose NOT to renew, your license becomes perpetual (no upgrades though) and as a result you lose the Avid Complete plugin bundle (you only keep the plugins included with the standard perpetual license). You can keep that going for however long you like, and when you're ready to get back on track for new features, get the complete plugin bundle, tech support and OS compatibility, just hop back on to subscription

Worth noting that the additional plugins from McDSP, Plugin Alliance, Native Instruments, UVI, Arturia and Embody are perpetual license, so you get to keep those.

Hope this helps.

[K Roche]

Originally Posted by francoisquereuil

On the bundled software questions, hopefully I can clarify. We tried to keep it simple while hopefully catering for all types of new and existing users.

New PT user:
You use the included 1-year PT Standard subscription. This includes all Avid plugins and HEAT. If you choose to renew at the end of the term, you will pay the regular annual subscription price of $299 (paid up front).

Existing PT user on subscription:
You can choose to keep your subscription and use it on a separate system, and use the included 1-year PT Standard subscription. OR you can extend the terms of your existing subscription for 1 year (cool thing about that option is that you can do this regardless of your current flavor: PT Standard or PT Ultimate)

Existing PT perpetual user on a current support and update plan:
You can choose to keep your license and plan, and use it on a separate system, and use the included 1-year PT Standard subscription. OR you can extend the terms of your support plan for 1 year (cool thing about that option is that you can do this regardless of your current flavor: PT Standard or PT Ultimate)

All users who choose the included subscription with "perpetual parachute":
Renewal will be at the Pro Tools standard price ($299 per year paid up front). If you choose NOT to renew, your license becomes perpetual (no upgrades though) and as a result you lose the Avid Complete plugin bundle (you only keep the plugins included with the standard perpetual license). You can keep that going for however long you like, and when you're ready to get back on track for new features, get the complete plugin bundle, tech support and OS compatibility, just hop back on to subscription

Worth noting that the additional plugins from McDSP, Plugin Alliance, Native Instruments, UVI, Arturia and Embody are perpetual license, so you get to keep those.

Hope this helps.

Thank you for taking the time to post I know you must be very busy

So I am getting my new Carbon in about two weeks according to my dealer. And (just to clarify for a slow learner), I have a current annual Ultimate update/support plan thru Jan 30 2021 ) the part about keep both license's And "can choose to keep your license and plan, and use it on a separate system". are you saying it must be a different computer (or partition ) ? And only one license version will show up in the Mac Audio Midi options ?

And am I correct in assuming these choice "options" will be clearly available in the online Product registration process ?? thanks again, Kevin

[Kyle Splittgerber]

Hello Everybody,

Thanks for the interest! I’m the product designer for Carbon, so I’ll do my best to answer questions. I’ve put them in a list below. Let me know if I missed anything or if you have additional questions. I’ll try to answer those too.

Thanks,

Kyle

---
Connection to Mac
• There is no driver for Carbon because AVB support is built into macOS. So, yes it’s essentially class-compliant.
• It works as a multi-client device which means you can use it with Pro Tools and any Core Audio app (Spotify, Logic, Safari, etc) simultaneously. This is different from our HDX and HD Native systems, but common for the majority of interfaces available today. Audio MIDI Setup displays Carbon as two separate devices: one for Pro Tools, one for Core Audio apps. However, the Hybrid Engine (DSP) is only available in Pro Tools
• Carbon will continue to work as an interface regardless of whether or not you can launch Pro Tools. We do currently deliver firmware updates via Pro Tools to fix hardware bugs, add features, etc. This means that if you aren’t current on your subscription or update plan, you may not get a bug fix via a firmware update. However, we are looking into ways to provide firmware updates outside of Pro Tools.
• Technically, you can aggregate Carbon with another Core Audio device. However, Carbon will operate as just a basic audio device in that configuration (i.e. no Hybrid Engine, no Hardware Setup control, etc)
Carbon will connect to an AVB switch and be recognized by the Mac. However, we don’t qualify this configuration (just direct connection via qualified Ethernet port or Ethernet adapter(s)).

Monitoring
• All hardware configuration settings (monitor sets, headphone sources, dim level, talkback gain, line i/o settings) are currently handled within Pro Tools > Hardware Setup.
• Surround monitoring control is not yet supported. However, you can still use it with surround tracks in Pro Tools | Ultimate or another DAW. You’ll just need an external surround monitor controller for level, mute, fold down, etc.

Frame Edge
Frame Edge sync is not available on Carbon as that requires a SYNC HD with an HDX or HD Native system. But, this functionality is really for workflows where you need sample accurate alignment with a video playback system and/or other Pro Tools systems. For example, on a dub stage for post production. If you’re playing back video from within Pro Tools with single system or not using video at all, frame edge alignment isn’t necessary.

Vis
DSPs do not improve VI latency as VIs are native-only. And, audio from VIs ‘flows’ downstream to DSP mixers before hitting the hardware output. So, there is no round tripping for DSP <--> host.

Carbon vs MTRX Studio
Check out this blog post for the differences between the two: http://www.avidblogs.com/comparing-p...s-mtrx-studio/
Comparison sheet: https://cdn-www.avid.com/-/media/avi...comparison.pdf

[Kyle Splittgerber]

Originally Posted by K Roche

Thank you for taking the time to post I know you must be very busy

So I am getting my new Carbon in about two weeks according to my dealer. And (just to clarify for a slow learner), I have a current annual Ultimate update/support plan thru Jan 30 2021 ) the part about keep both license's And "can choose to keep your license and plan, and use it on a separate system". are you saying it must be a different computer (or partition ) ? And only one license version will show up in the Mac Audio Midi options ?

And am I correct in assuming these choice "options" will be clearly available in the online Product registration process ?? thanks again, Kevin

Hey Kevin,

Congrats on the Carbon purchase! That's super exciting.

If you go with the option to have a separate Pro Tools license (two total), you can run Pro Tools on two separate machines simultaneously. For example, maybe you have an iMac in the studio and MacBook Pro for mobile work. Carbon itself does not require a license to be used on the Mac. That make sense?

When you register your Carbon unit on avid.com, there is a section which asks which option you want (new license or extend existing license).

Thanks,

Kyle

[K Roche]

Originally Posted by Kyle Splittgerber

Hey Kevin,

Congrats on the Carbon purchase! That's super exciting.

If you go with the option to have a separate Pro Tools license (two total), you can run Pro Tools on two separate machines simultaneously. For example, maybe you have an iMac in the studio and MacBook Pro for mobile work. Carbon itself does not require a license to be used on the Mac. That make sense?

When you register your Carbon unit on avid.com, there is a section which asks which option you want (new license or extend existing license).

Thanks,

Kyle

Thanks Kyle, got it , two different machines . I have one more question that is not clear to me. If I choose the option to extend my current yearly Ultimate Upgrade/Support plan,, How will that software (know) to display the green (lightning bolt button) to activate DSP mode ,,if it is not the bundled software ? Thanks, Kevin

[Kyle Splittgerber]

Originally Posted by K Roche

Thanks Kyle, got it , two different machines . I have one more question that is not clear to me. If I choose the option to extend my current yearly Ultimate Upgrade/Support plan,, How will that software (know) to display the green (lightning bolt button) to activate DSP mode ,,if it is not the bundled software ? Thanks, Kevin

Hi Kevin,

As long as you're running Pro Tools (Standard) / Pro Tools | Ultimate 2020.11 or later, Pro Tools will show the lightning bolt button (DSP Mode) with Carbon. Pro Tools simply displays that functionality based on Carbon being selected in the Playback Engine.

[K Roche]

Originally Posted by Kyle Splittgerber

Hi Kevin,

As long as you're running Pro Tools (Standard) / Pro Tools | Ultimate 2020.11 or later, Pro Tools will show the lightning bolt button (DSP Mode) with Carbon. Pro Tools simply displays that functionality based on Carbon being selected in the Playback Engine.

Hey thanks I suspected it was something with the Carbon being selected and a functional license, like the Ultimate functionality but was not sure . Thanks agin for taking the time to reply it is very much appreciated.

[Kyle Splittgerber]

Originally Posted by K Roche

Hey thanks I suspected it was something with the Carbon being selected and a functional license, like the Ultimate functionality but was not sure . Thanks agin for taking the time to reply it is very much appreciated.

Sure thing. Let us know how things go when you get your unit!

[melodydetective]

Hi Kyle - thanks for the reply.

Originally Posted by Kyle Splittgerber

Connection to Mac
• There is no driver for Carbon because AVB support is built into macOS. So, yes it’s essentially class-compliant.

I don’t mean to appear nitpicky, but what is the difference between “essentially class-compliant” and “class compliant?

Originally Posted by Kyle Splittgerber

• Carbon will continue to work as an interface regardless of whether or not you can launch Pro Tools. We do currently deliver firmware updates via Pro Tools to fix hardware bugs, add features, etc. This means that if you aren’t current on your subscription or update plan, you may not get a bug fix via a firmware update. However, we are looking into ways to provide firmware updates outside of Pro Tools.

This is exactly what I was concerned about. So I could get caught after an OS upgrade or something, because in addition to paying for the unit, at the moment I would have to pay for a license to update it. I hear that you are working on it, but it seems like a big ask to ask customers to commit to hardware that they might have to pay to update like that. They need to know that if they step away from the software, they have to be prepared for the loss of DSP, configurability and firmware updates. That scenario isn’t sounding too good to me as a long-time user who has arrived at the conclusion that PT for all of its strengths as an audio program (and they are many) is at the very least problematic for large composing templates, and the charm of having the DSP available is obscured by its solid marriage to PT software. Which I utterly understand the benefit of in general, so it kind of sounds like this box isn’t targeted at me, even if I still use PT to deliver sessions.

Originally Posted by Kyle Splittgerber

Monitoring
• All hardware configuration settings (monitor sets, headphone sources, dim level, talkback gain, line i/o settings) are currently handled within Pro Tools > Hardware Setup.

Preamp settings also, or can that be done via the front panel? And are the preamps available when using it with other DAWs?

Originally Posted by Kyle Splittgerber

Frame Edge
Frame Edge sync is not available on Carbon as that requires a SYNC HD with an HDX or HD Native system. But, this functionality is really for workflows where you need sample accurate alignment with a video playback system and/or other Pro Tools systems. For example, on a dub stage for post production. If you’re playing back video from within Pro Tools with single system or not using video at all, frame edge alignment isn’t necessary.

Thanks for that clarification.

Originally Posted by Kyle Splittgerber

Vis
DSPs do not improve VI latency as VIs are native-only. And, audio from VIs ‘flows’ downstream to DSP mixers before hitting the hardware output. So, there is no round tripping for DSP <--> host.

What if I needed to use a DSP plugin and then a host-based one on the VI? Does stepping out of the DSP realm in the Carbon and then going back to it incur latency?

Thanks again for your responses.