AAX DSP plugin latency

[Matt Hepworth]

At 44.1 they're not much different.

AVID:
HEAT = 9 (TDM 3)
Eleven = 46!!!
Sansamp = 56!!! (TDM 3!!!)
Channel Strip = 9
EQ3 = 9 (TDM 4)
BF76 = 9
Dyn 3 (no look ahead) = 9
Impact = 9
Pro Comp = 9
Pro Exp = 10
Mod Delay = 10
Real Tape Sat = 9
Smack! = 19 (TDM 4)
Dverb = 33 (TDM 4!!!)

METRIC HALO
Channel Strip = 9

BRAINWORX
bx_console = 33

SOFTUBE
Tilt = 33 (TDM 3!!!)

McDSP
Channel = 33 (TDM 3!!!)
6030 = 33 (TDM 3!!!)

[TNM]

Originally Posted by propower

All are 96K/24bit session values (though mostly these have stayed the same when I look at 44.1kHz)....

AVID:
Channel Strip = 10
EQ3 = 10
Pultec = 10
All BF = 10
Dyn 3 = 10
Fairchild = 10
Impact = 10
Pro Comp = 10
Pro Exp = 10
Mod Delay = 10
Real Tape delay = 10
RectiFi = 10
Real Tape Sat = 10
SciFi = 10
purple 77 = 13
Smack = 11
Pro Multiband = 34
Pro Limiter = 73
Gray Comp = 34
Black Spring = 66
Dverb = 34
Reverb One = 66
Revibe = 66
Space = 66
Studio Reverb = 66
Tape Echo = 66
SansAmp = 63
Black shiny Wah = 34
C1, Flanger, Orange Phasor, Vibe Phasor = 66
Real Tape Flanger = 4811 !!!!!
Roto Speaker = 34
Distortion Pedals (all) = 66
Pro Subharmonic = 394


METRIC HALO
Channel Strip = 10

SOFTUBE
Summit EQ = 34
Summit Grand Ch = 38
Tube Tech Classic Ch = 38
Tube tech pultecs = 42
FET Comp = 34

From a fellow source I have talked with about this...
PLUGIN-ALLIANCE
XLA-3 = 76
BX Limiter = 348
Refinement = 76
Saturation V2 = 56
All Elysias = 76
SPL PassEq = 60
SPL Vitalizer = 60
VSM-3 = 76
All others are 34.

From memory of recent demo of McDsp all were at least 34....

On a side note - amazing how the OLD Avid ones are all a mere 10 samples (were even less in the TDM versions). Now - no one does better than 34 samples. Three of these takes a stellar 0.52ms basic mixer to the same as HD Native at 96kHz 64buffer...

Interesting, and SUCH a useful post thank you.

Any idea on mcdsp?

With your incredibly thoughtful post, i can now in my head work out the sort of latency i would have in HDX at 44k and 96K with a standard monitoring plugin chain i would use.

My only question is, if i put a reverb on the aux bus, does the aux bus add latency of it's own, or like the apollo console would any latency just work as a pre delay? which is fine with a verb.

Also i presume that there is input delay compensation so everything stays in phase?

I would not want to throw out my 16 channels of focusrite dynamic octo pre mk2 and scarlett octopre adat, would i have to measure their converter latency separately, when connected to an avid interface that has adat connectivity?

Anyway, this post really allows me to compare REAL WORLD hdx latency to the awful apollo latency (when using plug in inserts)...

So THANK YOU again.

Interestingly, plugin alliance plugins have much higher latency on hdx than on apollo.. here is my list
http://uadforum.com/support-troubles...tml#post239703

[TNM]

HMM, softube also have much higher latency in HDX than apollo.. difference is i already own almost all softube native (and by default aax dsp) plugins and they told me they can not provide any cross-grade discount to uad versions.

Uad's own plugins have terrible latency in apollo.. you are limited to just a select few to avoid this latency...

but softube and alliance plugins have very low latency.. much much lower than HDX versions.. just when i was on the HDX bandwagon over apollo, these shocking latency figures of the plugins i would be using (very much of alliance and softube) has put me right off!

I would have to stick to avid plugins for low latency live monitoring, especially at 44/48k, which are definitely no better than the older uad plugins that don't have any additional latency.. So what's the point? The only gain would be i could ditch my 32 channel analog mixer and have it all run directly into pro tools at all times, with all settings saved.. i could do 64 inputs directly into HDX and actually expand those if ever needed.. with apollo i will always be stuck to 32 maximum inputs.

It never fails to shock me that avid put that 32 input crippling feature in PT vanilla. It's the only feature that makes me think of moving DAW's, seriously. I mean i bought an analog mixer JUST to be able to stay in PT lol.

Anyway, with shocking HDX plugin latency figures for the really good plugins,

it's 18k here for one 16x16 analog i.o and one HDX card.. so with haggling it would probably cost me around 25K to get 2HDX cards and the i/o i needed.

If i managed to get 8k for all my uad gear, that would still be 17 k JUST to use HDX and have more direct inputs to PT.. it's such a difficult decision and i ponder over it every single day! I just don't know what to do.

If the mcdsp latencies are not high, that will help me towards HDX, as i use their plugins religiously, and besides reverb and modulation, they cover all other monitoring needs.

I'd also like to have a limiter on the master bus.. does any one know what the very lowest latency HDX limiter is? I find them essential for 0 overshoot speaker and ear protection.

I will never monitor without a master limiter. On the apollo I can put the precision limiter which is 0.66 ms at 96K.. at 96K, apollo latencies are acceptable.

I find it weird though how HDX is so much lower without plugins at 96K, 0.7ms vs 1.1 for apollo.

Let's be realistic here.. to use a ton of outboard gear in realtime, with analog mixer type latency feel, with a DSP system, you HAVE to work at 96K.. it's a waste to be recording old 16 bit romplers at 96k but i suppose all my true analog synths will benefit from it.

Another interesting new native system is the presonus quantum which provides better latencies than HDN but of course will be limited to 32 ins in PT.

I go through all this crazy posting and non stop thinking over this as the moment i invest in my second apollo 8 it is just too late.. i have to be sure before i drop that $3700 AUD.. it's such a big commitment but absolutely needed so i can run 32 ins at 96k for acceptable latency and still much cheaper than a HDX.

[YYR123]

HDX cards are in the $3k range now.

16io's can be had for $2k each.

Fyi

[arche3]

Just go hdx. Use aax dsp. I'm sure you can find comparable plugins to the uad ones you like.

All these headaches are not worth it. Third party hardware while great will not integrate as well as the avid stuff. Bite the bullet. Go hdx. Get it used from ebay. Get to work.

[TNM]

Originally Posted by arche3

Just go hdx. Use aax dsp. I'm sure you can find comparable plugins to the uad ones you like.

All these headaches are not worth it. Third party hardware while great will not integrate as well as the avid stuff. Bite the bullet. Go hdx. Get it used from ebay. Get to work.

Ok.. thank you..

I am just guessing here.. but i presume for real time analog mixer type monitoring in HDX, i'd need to enable the input monitoring button of all tracks, right? Does it save that setting with the project? Cause it certainly doesn't save record armed track settings. If i can open the project and do NOTHING and it is all ready to go with all my input monitoring, that's a big boon. Cheers

PS if you look at the HDX dsp plugin latency list, it's actually really quite high. But manageable at 96K.. at 44k i could not do it.. i'd be at 8ms roundtrip with the sort of plugins i would use. 3.5ms at 96k i can handle :)

[TNM]

Originally Posted by YYR123

HDX cards are in the $3k range now.

16io's can be had for $2k each.

Fyi

WOW.. in the US maybe? I wish i could find that in Australia..

i'd also need a thunderbolt chassis...

Are the HDX card fans really noisy? I wonder if thunderbolt can just be put in the next room or perhaps a cupboard i can close the door on.

[propower]

Originally Posted by TNM

Interesting, and SUCH a useful post thank you.

Any idea on mcdsp?

Thank you

McDsp was also around 34 samples per plugin but interestingly - with their new rack thing I believe I remember trying 3 things in the rack and it still being 34 samples.