Can someone explain to be the argument behind Pro Tools being bad with midi?

[panamajack]

Originally Posted by DBK

Ive been hearing this since I started using it. "Pro Tools is bad with midi". . .

My opinion is that if you work a lot with MIDI, you appreciate being able to see your work in both a MIDI editor and a score editor.

The score editor in LOGIC has many additional features. Logic actually began as a score program. The event list is pretty important, and the environment window lets you construct whatever you want.

Pro Tools integrates both audio hardware and its software very well. As I recall, the score editor in Pro Tools came along in Pro Tools 8--and was based upon Sibelius.

If you cannot read music, or prefer to work with loops or stick with a MIDI editor, there is less of a difference.

The Score editor in Pro Tools 8 was adapted from Sibelius, then Avid bought Sibelius and fired everybody. About that time, the Eleven Rack was introduced and came with a copy of Pro Tools 8 LE. I had been using Logic up until then and linking MIDI to either external synths or to another computer loaded with Miroslav orchestral instruments.

I have both Sibelius and Finale, as well as Pro Tools and Logic. They are all different.

I will say that Logic converts from a MIDI editor to a Score editor much more intelligently than Pro Tools, but that Logic is a pain to actually get a score in engraving ready form. For printed scores, both Finale and Sibelius are better. But for producing audio, Pro Tools and Logic.

Although Apple has added some export functions to Logic that accommodate export to other software, and Pro Tools is suppose to "rewire" to Sibelius, neither does everything better than the other.

It is tedious to learn a new software system. So, if what you have is working, stick with it. On the other hand, if you want to help the economy out of the doldrums, buy them all.

[LukeHoward]

I thought Logic came from Notator? Anyway, yeah - MIDI and score editing isn't amazing in PT. What really annoys me (maybe there's a way around this) is how the visible tracks in the score view don't persist if you switch to and from the edit window.

[Marsdy]

Originally Posted by DBK

Ive been hearing this since I started using it. "Pro Tools is bad with midi"... I didnt have much experience with DAWS before Pro Tools but Ive tried reason and ableton as well. Ive watched 100's of hours of production video in logic and ableton though so im familiar with both.

But anyway Why? I always ask for reasons but people dont really ever seem to have them.. I produce electronic music in the box 100% and most of the time im in midi and its all done through VSTS in Pro Tools 11.

Am I missing something? Im not saying theyre wrong, im legitimately asking - What am I missing regarding people saying Pro Tools is bad with midi? Am I unintentionally handicapping myself by using Pro Tools if I work on Electronic music In the box?

I know pro tools well and my workflow is fast - Im not looking to switch, im just looking for a logical explanation to why everyone says Pro Tools cant compete with Cubase/Logic in terms of Midi Production.


PS- Please no biased opinions, I want actual facts by someone whos familiar with each DAW. Im sure I will also get a lot of "Pro Tools is just as good" responses from people who have never used cubase or ableton, etc.. Only informed answers please. Ive been hearing these statements for awhile now and the purpose of this thread is so I can actually get to the bottom of it. Im already aware of all the biased opinions out there haha.

I have Cubase, Logic, Ableton Live, and Digital Performer. I mostly use Pro Tools. I'm a composer so a major MIDI/VI type dude.

Pro Tools arguably has a better MIDI editor (piano roll,) than Logic.... seriously!!!!! Logic's other MIDI functionality is more advanced but a lot of it is VERY clunky and long in the tooth. Pro Tools is faster, (no interminable tool swapping for example,) you can view multiple controller lanes, multiple track handling is better and so on. Cubase OTOH has the best MIDI editor by far followed by DP. The way selected notes can be manipulated in Cubase is a dream. Fade ins/outs, note compressing/expanding, level changes etc. Then there are Expression Maps... I'd kill to see that in Pro Tools.

There's a reasonably good comparative review of DAW MIDI editors here:
https://youtu.be/g8UfGIfuDaA

Personally I've not had an timing problems with Pro Tools apart from the occasional delay compensation issue.

If I was ONLY recording electronic music with little or no audio I'd use Live. The MIDI editor is nothing to write home about but otherwise it's a sound designers dream.

Logic really is a jack-of-all-trades-master-of-none app IMO. Cubase suffers from this to a degree except MIDI editing is outstanding by comparison.

[musicman691]

Originally Posted by Marsdy

I have Cubase, Logic, Ableton Live, and Digital Performer. I mostly use Pro Tools. I'm a composer so a major MIDI/VI type dude.

Pro Tools arguably has a better MIDI editor (piano roll,) than Logic.... seriously!!!!! Logic's other MIDI functionality is more advanced but a lot of it is VERY clunky and long in the tooth. Pro Tools is faster, (no interminable tool swapping for example,) you can view multiple controller lanes, multiple track handling is better and so on. Cubase OTOH has the best MIDI editor by far followed by DP. The way selected notes can be manipulated in Cubase is a dream. Fade ins/outs, note compressing/expanding, level changes etc. Then there are Expression Maps... I'd kill to see that in Pro Tools.

There's a reasonably good comparative review of DAW MIDI editors here:
https://youtu.be/g8UfGIfuDaA

Personally I've not had an timing problems with Pro Tools apart from the occasional delay compensation issue.

If I was ONLY recording electronic music with little or no audio I'd use Live. The MIDI editor is nothing to write home about but otherwise it's a sound designers dream.

Logic really is a jack-of-all-trades-master-of-none app IMO. Cubase suffers from this to a degree except MIDI editing is outstanding by comparison.

Interesting that in your comparison you never mention where DP comes in in all this. I have both PT (11.3.2 and 10.3.1) and DP 9.02 (9.12 has issues I can't deal with) and find DP way ahead in MIDI handling but not perfect. You can't do a timeline selection and separate like you can in PT and make operations on said selection like in PT. You can do some operations in DP but they're clunky at best. And if you mention this to the old-time old-school hardcore DP users they think DP is perfect.

I went to DP when Avid started with the subscription business and while it's a breath of fresh air and can do a number of things as well as or better than PT it's still not perfect but then again which daw is? My balance of work has shifted more towards the MIDI end with less physical instrument/vocal work.

[panamajack]

Originally Posted by Marsdy

I have Cubase, Logic, Ableton Live, and Digital Performer. I mostly use Pro Tools. . . .

. . . Cubase . . . MIDI editing is outstanding by comparison.

Originally Posted by musicman691

Interesting that in your comparison you never mention where DP comes in in all this. I have both PT (11.3.2 and 10.3.1) and DP 9.02 (9.12 has issues I can't deal with) and find DP way ahead in MIDI handling but not perfect. . . .

I tried Cubase VST for a while (while learning Logic), but dropped out because the upgrades were more expensive. Was tempted by Nuendo, but never went there.

I have always been curious about DP, but I recall the entry fee was high (and the feedback seemed to highlight lots of issues).

The reference materials for PT are pretty amazing, and the courseware helps out the learning curve.

[musicman691]

Originally Posted by panamajack

I tried Cubase VST for a while (while learning Logic), but dropped out because the upgrades were more expensive. Was tempted by Nuendo, but never went there.

I have always been curious about DP, but I recall the entry fee was high (and the feedback seemed to highlight lots of issues).

The reference materials for PT are pretty amazing, and the courseware helps out the learning curve.

Entry fee isn't any more expensive than PT and is actually cheaper especially when you factor in DP has no yearly fee - it's a perpetual license. With crossgrade in mind (and there are a ton of things that qualify as eligible to crossgrade from) it's $395 US. No iLok needed either. As to issues - all depends on what exact version one is running.

[DonaldM]

I have to agree with those saying that PT works in MIDI just fine. I compose all my work using MIDI in PT and I don't seem to lack for anything. Well...there is ONE thing (isn't there always?), and its something we've discussed on this forum before: we NEED a MIDI version of playlists so you can comp a MIDI performance just like an audio one. Sometimes when composing, you're trying out different ideas...different ways of playing a part. It'd be nice to just add a playlist track on the SAME MIDI track and then be able to go back and listen to what is working best and select it.

Other than that, I've been very happy with PT MIDI.

[DonaldM]

Okay...two things...though this one is strictly speaking just MIDI, but it'd be real nice if Rewire were a two way street. That could open up a lot of huge possibilities! Just sayin'....

[musicman691]

Originally Posted by DonaldM

Okay...two things...though this one is strictly speaking just MIDI, but it'd be real nice if Rewire were a two way street. That could open up a lot of huge possibilities! Just sayin'....

Dude:
Don't even get me started on PT and Rewire's shortcomings

[DonaldM]

Originally Posted by musicman691

Dude:
Don't even get me started on PT and Rewire's shortcomings

Well, to be fair, rewires shortcomings are part of rewire and not ProTools.it's not Avid's fault that rewire is a one-way street!


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