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  #1  
Old 10-04-2017, 12:22 PM
noiseboyuk noiseboyuk is offline
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Default Source Elements Live: Limitations?

Just road testing Source Elements Live Pro here for possible use in final mix with client on an upcoming series, with the 15 day trial.

After a tortuous network tech setup (see below for any future forum searchers), I have it working and tried it locally using the various playback options with web browsers, the IOS app and the Mac app (running on the same rig as the Pro Tools, but of course streaming via the web). Technically it's a marvel, as far as it goes, but I'm dubious as to whether or not its far enough. The best I've been able to get latency is about 3 seconds, and that's using Low Latency Mode which is only available on the Mac App. "Only"?!! I hear you cry, but think what it's supposedly replacing - a human sat next to you, with back and forth all day of a latency of 0s. So 3s is, at best, the maximum end of being useful for us I'd say - when the producer yells "STOOOOOOPPPPP!" it's the road to madness for each additional second I reckon.

But there's a second serious limitation as far as I can make out. Despite Mike (hello Mike) mentioning in the Pro Tools Expert review ( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cLepY8J6dcI ) that there are video chat options, damned if I can find any. Now of course we could use Skype et al on another device - and it would take away yet more CPU strain doing this - but of course it's not going to be in sync, and I fear the doubling up of spill will again lead to madness.

What I've pretty much decided is that it's not up to a back-and-forth mix scenario. If the sessions are pure reviews then it becomes more viable - watch it all through, the client makes notes and then do the fixes one by one, using Skype for comms. Still a bit boxing gloves, but probably doable.
Grateful for any thoughts here though, on how you've found real world use, and where that elusive video chat is.

NETWORK TECH NOTES FOR FUTURE FORUM SEARCHERS

The instructions on the Source Elements Network PDF for network setup is vague at best. Here's the settings I needed using a Virgin router:

Local IP address (of your rig, needs to be a static IP, more on this below)
Local Port Range 6000-6001
External Port Range 6000-6001
Protocol TCP

Where I really had my headaches I think was due to the fact that my studio has its own wifi router, which is fed via ethernet from the main router. It proved impossible to port forward with this configuration, as the studio router had its third IP digit as a 1 but the main router is a 0 and this can't be changed. My solution in the end was to use an Ethernet cable not wifi into the studio network switch, and this gave me an IP address with a 0 and worked.
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  #2  
Old 10-04-2017, 03:46 PM
Nathan W. Nathan W. is offline
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Default Re: Source Elements Live: Limitations?

Delay -- it's useless. Plus system lag. We tried it for a voiceover session and it just sucked.

We actually used IPDTL with a Ripsaw to stream video on a separate computer and it worked pretty good--about 1/2 frame delay. I'm sure it can be done on the same machine with a powerful enough computer and a great internet connection.

We actually combined IPDTL with a Skype camera so the producer could see the talent in the booth while we voiced a show, and IPDTL took the mix. Talkback was routed through protools. I imagine you could do this internally if you used source nexus combined with IPDTL (haven't tested it though.)
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Old 10-04-2017, 03:47 PM
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minister minister is offline
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Default Re: Source Elements Live: Limitations?

I desperately WANT this to be the right solution ready for Prime Time.
It would be slick as El Debarge. Having on-board, realtime chat would cool.

But I haven't worked it out yet. I do have Source Connect Pro and know about IT setup.

I used Sling Box (a $500 investment plus cables) for a TV Series review. There was a 6 second delay. And we stayed on the phone for discussing. It worked. Client adapted and was happy.

A non-realtime option would be Frame IO. With that you can drop markers and type comments and have a chat history. Used in on a Film. Picture People use it a lot.

But I still wish SE Live would be undeniable.
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Old 10-04-2017, 03:50 PM
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minister minister is offline
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Default Re: Source Elements Live: Limitations?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nathan W. View Post
Delay -- it's useless. Plus system lag. We tried it for a voiceover session and it just sucked.

We actually used IPDTL with a Ripsaw to stream video on a separate computer and it worked pretty good--about 1/2 frame delay. I'm sure it can be done on the same machine with a powerful enough computer and a great internet connection.

We actually combined IPDTL with a Skype camera so the producer could see the talent in the booth while we voiced a show, and IPDTL took the mix. Talkback was routed through protools. I imagine you could do this internally if you used source nexus combined with IPDTL (haven't tested it though.)
I wouldn't use it for VO, only mix-to-pix reviews.
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  #5  
Old 10-05-2017, 02:07 AM
noiseboyuk noiseboyuk is offline
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Default Re: Source Elements Live: Limitations?

Thanks all - Nathan, that's a whole new world to me, had never even heard of IPDTL and their website is pretty frugal. Their Gold service mentions video, but there's no details I can find at all. Feels like it would need a lot of time and resources to get it going in the first place.
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  #6  
Old 10-05-2017, 03:03 AM
ulisauer ulisauer is offline
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Default Re: Source Elements Live: Limitations?

Hey, you could try this application:
https://www.sessionlinkpro.com/

Best
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Last edited by ulisauer; 10-08-2017 at 01:44 AM.
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  #7  
Old 10-05-2017, 10:22 AM
noiseboyuk noiseboyuk is offline
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Default Re: Source Elements Live: Limitations?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ulisauer View Post
Hey, you could try this application:
https://www.sessionlinkpro.com/

Best
Uli
Holy cow, that's 50x better, thanks Uli! My local latency test is around a quarter of a second, going via their servers. Picture quality looks astonishingly good at default settings, and sound pretty good too. The bitrate is 192k stereo - not sure what the codec is, but it sounded pretty clean to me. Not up to really critical feature film final mix monitoring, but for regular TV stuff perfectly good I think. No complex setting up - save for one nasty thing I'll come to in a minute.

Video chat is built in - in fact, the version I'm using is video conferencing software. You get an option to choose which screen you want to share, so I'm using my video screen on the wall - if I wanted I could put a webcam in the corner of that screen so the client can see me. Comms promises to be positively elegant. I route a mic into PT sent to the same output that I'm sending the main mix down the line to (via an RME Babyface and ADA8200). Further, I can assign this fader to channel 8 of my Artist Mix, so can use the button right there to mute and unmute my comms (I might put a gate on it too which might help a bit). As for the client, the software has a great feature where you can mute the mic, and then use the spacebar as a push to talk button - release and its muted again (or just click the button to keep it open).

Now for the nasty thing. Sometimes when connecting, I get a horrendous distorted underwater effect on the outgoing from the PT end. What seems to cure it is to disconnect, go to the audio settings, switch from stereo to mono and put the Advanced Audio Processing On (this is meant to mimimise howl round effects) - at this point a dialogue comes up asking which screen I want to capture. Having done all this, I then need to do the exact reverse, back to where I was, and reconnect. At that point - volia, the audio is pristine again. But it's enough to make me slightly nervous, will contact their support about this. So far I've always been able to make it come good when its fritzed and - importantly - once connected it seems rock solid. The issue only occurs after someone disconnects.

Will be testing this tomorrow morning with the client, if it behaves itself then Session Link Pro, in fact, seems to be the whole new ball game, not Source Connect Live after all.
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  #8  
Old 10-06-2017, 07:14 AM
noiseboyuk noiseboyuk is offline
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Default Re: Source Elements Live: Limitations?

...and the results of the test are.... pretty good but it was a helluva fight getting to that point. That was 95% problems at the client end as it turned out, mostly an inexplicable local issue between his PC and the router - while all his other devices were streaming 100mbps download, the PC was 1mbps, despite up to date drivers, the right network and all the right settings. Anyway, that's for him to sort out, and this is what test days are for. We got it successfully working on his old Macbook Pro, using a separate mic and his good speakers. Echoes were minimal, and easily livable with, especially using push to talk his end. Latency was incredible - as good a mobile phone or better I'd say. He was very happy with picture and sound quality - we used a James Newton Howard track to test for funnies and he said it sounded excellent. If he never sorts his PC out, he's more than happy to use this alternative.

I am still occasionally getting this nasty fault mode though, about which I've sent SessionLinkPro an email. I'm pretty sure it slipped into it a couple of times without either of us disconnecting and reconnecting. It is fixed by me leaving, fiddling with the session and rejoining. An irritant, but not a showstopper.

But on the basis of this test, the client is enthusiastically recommending we use it for real, from Episode One onwards. So yes... it appears the future is in fact here.
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  #9  
Old 10-06-2017, 07:59 AM
Nathan W. Nathan W. is offline
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Default Re: Source Elements Live: Limitations?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ulisauer View Post
Hey, you could try this application:
https://www.sessionlinkpro.com/

Best
Uli
Thanks---going to try that one myself. Latency is a really big deal that source elements sucks on. Source elements, are you listening? Gotta improve the latency!
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  #10  
Old 10-06-2017, 08:21 AM
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dr sound dr sound is offline
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Default Re: Source Elements Live: Limitations?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ulisauer View Post
Hey, you could try this application:
https://www.sessionlinkpro.com/

Best
Uli
Thanks!
This looks very slick. I will try the free 30 day demo to see
how it works. I just wrote an email to Tim to see if he will be supporting
5.1 in the future. This could be very cool for client remote approval.
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