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  #1  
Old 09-17-2018, 04:37 PM
bsteeve bsteeve is offline
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Default What do I need to monitor in Dolby Atmos with my setup?

Hi guys.

I recently started teaching at a uni where they have installed a Dolby Atmos speaker array (15.1.6)

It's HDX 1 system with an ICON D-Control with 2 x 192 I/O

I'm trying to get my head around setting this up for Atmos monitoring with protools and the ICON

Now the ICON only support 8 outputs for the primary monitors from which only 6 can be fully controlled from the monitor section.

Now aside from the Dolby production suite, what else do we need?
Sounds like I need a dolby Atmos monitor controller...

Do we need to upgrade to an Avid MTRX?
Would that work with the ICON?
Also are we gonna need a Dolby MRU? We don't want to author in Dolby Atmos, we just want student to be able to monitor and mix in Atmos.
The issue I see is that delay compensation doesn't seem to work with the Software version.

Any advice would be greatly appriciated

Last edited by bsteeve; 09-17-2018 at 05:01 PM.
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  #2  
Old 09-18-2018, 06:47 AM
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reichman reichman is offline
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Default Re: What do I need to monitor in Dolby Atmos with my setup?

They installed all those speakers without a monitor controller?

Yes, you need something like an MTRX, Intonato or the Yamaha MMP1. I've been looking at these but don't have firsthand experience yet to give you a good opinion. Lots of talk about those devices over on Gearslutz.

You don't need the RMU if all you're doing is mixing and monitoring.

Dolby Atmos v3 just came out. It's on my list to check out this week. It looks like they've simplified and improved some things for the Production Suite/Home Theater users.
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  #3  
Old 09-18-2018, 08:36 PM
lucienpalmer lucienpalmer is offline
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Default Re: What do I need to monitor in Dolby Atmos with my setup?

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Originally Posted by reichman View Post
Dolby Atmos v3 just came out. It's on my list to check out this week. It looks like they've simplified and improved some things for the Production Suite/Home Theater users.
The new version doesn’t change that they stil probably need something to control those 22 speaker channels. The MYRX is a godsend for routing flexibility. I love mine. But I don’t know how it integrates with an Icon.

Pro Tools will send audio to the Dolby Production Suite. That sends the 22 output channels back into Pro Tools. Then you route it out of PT to the speakers. Technically you can mute, dim, and even tune the room from inside Dolby. But that uses a bunch of processing power on your host computer. You should instead have something like a Q-Sys, BSS, or MTRX (with monitor card) to tune the room. They will also act as monitor controller. You will want it to switch between tunings of Atmos, 5.1, stereo, for broadcast, cinema, streaming, etc. (assuming you aren’t only teaching about Atmos in that room).
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  #4  
Old 09-20-2018, 12:42 AM
bsteeve bsteeve is offline
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Default Re: What do I need to monitor in Dolby Atmos with my setup?

Quote:
Originally Posted by lucienpalmer View Post
The new version doesn’t change that they stil probably need something to control those 22 speaker channels. The MYRX is a godsend for routing flexibility. I love mine. But I don’t know how it integrates with an Icon.

Pro Tools will send audio to the Dolby Production Suite. That sends the 22 output channels back into Pro Tools. Then you route it out of PT to the speakers. Technically you can mute, dim, and even tune the room from inside Dolby. But that uses a bunch of processing power on your host computer. You should instead have something like a Q-Sys, BSS, or MTRX (with monitor card) to tune the room. They will also act as monitor controller. You will want it to switch between tunings of Atmos, 5.1, stereo, for broadcast, cinema, streaming, etc. (assuming you aren’t only teaching about Atmos in that room).
Thanks guys, no I'm not only teaching Atmos, mostly 5.1 and 7.1 mixing, Atmos being the cherry on top... So MTRX is the way to go right?. So if I understand correctly I can just replace the 192 I/O and Xmon with the thing as long as I put the right cards in there... It's like a combination of the Avid I/O and Xmon combined with a software routing system right ..? Avid says you can control the monitor through EUCON, so my assumption is since the ICON works on the EUCON protocol that should "hopefully" work...
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Old 09-20-2018, 12:56 AM
Darryl Ramm Darryl Ramm is offline
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Default Re: What do I need to monitor in Dolby Atmos with my setup?

Quote:
Originally Posted by bsteeve View Post
Thanks guys, no I'm not only teaching Atmos, mostly 5.1 and 7.1 mixing, Atmos being the cherry on top... So MTRX is the way to go right?. So if I understand correctly I can just replace the 192 I/O and Xmon with the thing as long as I put the right cards in there... It's like a combination of the Avid I/O and Xmon combined with a software routing system right ..? Avid says you can control the monitor through EUCON, so my assumption is since the ICON works on the EUCON protocol that should "hopefully" work...
I am not following the details of this thread, but in the last comment here. Icon do *not* use Eucon. Two different beasts from two different legacy companies.
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Old 09-20-2018, 12:57 AM
BScout BScout is offline
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Default Re: What do I need to monitor in Dolby Atmos with my setup?

Quote:
Originally Posted by bsteeve View Post
Avid says you can control the monitor through EUCON, so my assumption is since the ICON works on the EUCON protocol that should "hopefully" work...
ICON does NOT use Eucon. In fact, if you are using Eucon, you cannot enable Icon controllers (and vice versa) in Pro Tools.

Luckily DADman (the controlling software for the MTRX) is outside of Pro Tools and that can have Eucon enabled while Pro Tools has Eucon off. But you will need to either control DADman by mouse/keyboard or get a separate Eucon controller only for it.

Big question is how involved of an ATMOS mix you expect to do. You need at least an HDX2 system to do a proper film ATMOS mix with a Dolby RMU. Your best bet is to talk to Dolby about how far you want to go and what you need for educational purposes. With an HDX1, you have at max 64 in and out and 32 out are locked to monitoring by your count. So you only have 32 channels to go to an RMU. That's not a lot.

To be quite frank, these are discussions and items that should have been ordered/organized before a 15.1.6 system was put in.
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  #7  
Old 09-20-2018, 07:29 AM
lucienpalmer lucienpalmer is offline
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Default Re: What do I need to monitor in Dolby Atmos with my setup?

Quote:
Originally Posted by BScout View Post
Luckily DADman (the controlling software for the MTRX) is outside of Pro Tools and that can have Eucon enabled while Pro Tools has Eucon off. But you will need to either control DADman by mouse/keyboard or get a separate Eucon controller only for it.

Big question is how involved of an ATMOS mix you expect to do. You need at least an HDX2 system to do a proper film ATMOS mix with a Dolby RMU. Your best bet is to talk to Dolby about how far you want to go and what you need for educational purposes. With an HDX1, you have at max 64 in and out and 32 out are locked to monitoring by your count. So you only have 32 channels to go to an RMU. That's not a lot.
DAD also makes MOM that could be an easy solution to add hardware monitor control- http://www.digitalaudio.dk/PRODUCTS/...erating-Mudule

For teaching purposes, I don't think they need a whole RMU. The RMU would only be necessary to record a master for delivery. The Production Suite can do everything necessary for monitoring and mixing purposes. And since it's all running on the same machine, that removes the need for 128 ch I/O of MADI out of the CPU. He would only need something with min 22 outputs to reach those speakers. Although, the MTRX is still a great idea. It's quickly becoming the new standard (so good for teaching), and if you add the SPQ Speaker Processing Card, you can tune the room, and switch between tunings for Atmos, 5.1, broadcast, cinema, etc. (which is really, really important). So no need to buy something to run the B-Chain like Q-Sys, BSS, or Intonato.

Besides, the RMU and additional software and hardware is going to cost about $15k vs $299 for the Production Suite. Spend that $15k on (half) of an S6. That's probably a move valuable education. You could spend a whole semester on an S6.

I totally agree about getting another HDX card. You need at least HDX2 for track count. Especially with the Production Suite, because of all the additional aux tracks needed.
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  #8  
Old 09-20-2018, 05:19 PM
bsteeve bsteeve is offline
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Default Re: What do I need to monitor in Dolby Atmos with my setup?

Right, so it's definitely a little more complicated than I originally thought...
So in brief I minimum I would need would:

1 x Dolby Production Suite
1 x Extra HDX card
1 x MTRX with 3 output card and Speaker Processing card
1 x DAD MOM to control the monitors via EUCON with the MTRX

In protools EUCON is disabled so I can still use the ICON as a control surface..

Is the above correct?

thanks guys
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  #9  
Old 09-20-2018, 05:48 PM
BScout BScout is offline
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Default Re: What do I need to monitor in Dolby Atmos with my setup?

Quote:
Originally Posted by bsteeve View Post
Right, so it's definitely a little more complicated than I originally thought...
So in brief I minimum I would need would:

1 x Dolby Production Suite
1 x Extra HDX card
1 x MTRX with 3 output card and Speaker Processing card
1 x DAD MOM to control the monitors via EUCON with the MTRX

In protools EUCON is disabled so I can still use the ICON as a control surface..

Is the above correct?

thanks guys
Almost.
DAD MOM doesn't use Eucon. It uses its own protocol. Lukehoward on these forums created a "MOM" app for iPads/iPhones that exactly mimics the MOM hardware. That can be a cheaper, easier way than buying the MOM.

As lucienpalmer mentioned, you may not need a second HDX card for your educational purposes.

And yes, if eucon is disabled in Pro Tools, you can use the Icon still. How you will manage panning (especially object panning) I'm not sure with an Icon. There were third party hardware solutions (JL Cooper)
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  #10  
Old 09-20-2018, 07:03 PM
lucienpalmer lucienpalmer is offline
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Default Re: What do I need to monitor in Dolby Atmos with my setup?

Quote:
Originally Posted by BScout View Post
As lucienpalmer mentioned, you may not need a second HDX card for your educational purposes.



And yes, if eucon is disabled in Pro Tools, you can use the Icon still. How you will manage panning (especially object panning) I'm not sure with an Icon. There were third party hardware solutions (JL Cooper)

Actually, I said he should get a second card. The Production Suite uses a ton of additional aux tracks. You’ll run out of voices pretty quick. And if you are teaching film mixing, you’ll probably want the plugin DSP anyway.
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