ReWire not in sync as far as tempo

[digorysmallz]

Originally Posted by musicman691

Do you have Reason set to run in 64 bit? This should be able to be done through the Get Info when you right click on the Reason application icon.

Yes I am running in 64 bit.

Ok, so I've emailed Reason support with this issue. This is exactly what I explained to them so perhaps this will help give everyone more details as to what exactly is going on. I am using a Universal Audio Apollo 16 for monitoring mind you.

Description
Hi, I've always used rewire in ProTools with no problems. The problem I am having is when I am in rewire mode and have delay compensation on, there is some noticeable latency while playing in Reason 6.5.3. If I turn delay compensation off there is no latency but everything else in ProTools is out of sync. I'm guessing this is because I'm using both uad & aax plugins. Thing is my system usage is only running at 12% at a 128 sample buffer. When I turn delay compensation on all the tracks playback in perfect sync but there is latency when I’m trying to play in Reason.
My second problem is when I go to record the notes in reason they only record the attack of the note and not the duration. The notes are also not recording in sync with Protools so they playback at the wrong time. I am using ProTools 11.3 & am monitoring through the line 1&2 outs of my interface on a Universal Audio Apollo 16. I noticed in Protools on the rewire icon where it shows you the i/o.... I have it set to Mix L&R. Perhaps that has something to do with it?
When I use reason standalone I have no issues.

Actions required to reproduce the problem
Open ProTools 11.3.0, create an instrument track, insert the reason rewire plugin on the tracks which then opens reason. Set the audio to output Mix L&R on the rewire plugin. My hardware buffer size is set to 128.

Troubleshooting already attempted
I've tried adjusting the hardware buffer size. I have low latency monitoring engaged as well as delay compensation when I'm monitoring from the Line1&2 outputs of the Apollo 16. I also tried monitoring from the headphone output of my Macbook Pro. Same thing... when I have delay compensation on there is latency when I play in Reason but the tracks line up properly in ProTools. When delay comp is off there is no latency when I play in reason but all the tracks are slightly out of sync with each other.

[musicman691]

Originally Posted by digorysmallz

Yes I am running in 64 bit.

Ok, so I've emailed Reason support with this issue. This is exactly what I explained to them so perhaps this will help give everyone more details as to what exactly is going on. I am using a Universal Audio Apollo 16 for monitoring mind you.

Description
Hi, I've always used rewire in ProTools with no problems. The problem I am having is when I am in rewire mode and have delay compensation on, there is some noticeable latency while playing in Reason 6.5.3. If I turn delay compensation off there is no latency but everything else in ProTools is out of sync. I'm guessing this is because I'm using both uad & aax plugins. Thing is my system usage is only running at 12% at a 128 sample buffer. When I turn delay compensation on all the tracks playback in perfect sync but there is latency when I’m trying to play in Reason.
My second problem is when I go to record the notes in reason they only record the attack of the note and not the duration. The notes are also not recording in sync with Protools so they playback at the wrong time. I am using ProTools 11.3 & am monitoring through the line 1&2 outs of my interface on a Universal Audio Apollo 16. I noticed in Protools on the rewire icon where it shows you the i/o.... I have it set to Mix L&R. Perhaps that has something to do with it?
When I use reason standalone I have no issues.

Actions required to reproduce the problem
Open ProTools 11.3.0, create an instrument track, insert the reason rewire plugin on the tracks which then opens reason. Set the audio to output Mix L&R on the rewire plugin. My hardware buffer size is set to 128.

Troubleshooting already attempted
I've tried adjusting the hardware buffer size. I have low latency monitoring engaged as well as delay compensation when I'm monitoring from the Line1&2 outputs of the Apollo 16. I also tried monitoring from the headphone output of my Macbook Pro. Same thing... when I have delay compensation on there is latency when I play in Reason but the tracks line up properly in ProTools. When delay comp is off there is no latency when I play in reason but all the tracks are slightly out of sync with each other.

Why are you recording the notes in Reason? Feed Reason Rewire from an Instrument track in ProTools. Also the Reason audio coming back into PT on Mix L&R is not the cause of your issuers - that's the default path back in to PT but of course you can change that to anything you want.

It's well known that UAD plugins are huge latency (delay compensation) sources. Some possibly even going beyond what PT can correct for. I'd leave the UAD plugins out until you go to mix down things and not record with them on.

When you say system usage is only 12% where are you measuring that - in PT or OSX Activity monitor? Low latency monitoring won't help in this issue either - that's only for recording external hardware as I understand it.

[digorysmallz]

Originally Posted by musicman691

Why are you recording the notes in Reason? Feed Reason Rewire from an Instrument track in ProTools. Also the Reason audio coming back into PT on Mix L&R is not the cause of your issuers - that's the default path back in to PT but of course you can change that to anything you want.

It's well known that UAD plugins are huge latency (delay compensation) sources. Some possibly even going beyond what PT can correct for. I'd leave the UAD plugins out until you go to mix down things and not record with them on.

When you say system usage is only 12% where are you measuring that - in PT or OSX Activity monitor? Low latency monitoring won't help in this issue either - that's only for recording external hardware as I understand it.

Thanks for the response. In regards to UAD plugins comment, there should be no latency issues because I am running off the dsp of my TB Apollo 16 (quad) & TB Satellite quad. They do not take up any cpu power on my computer which is why I bought them Both devices are thunderbolt running into my new Macbook Pro (maxed out). I am however running some aax plugins but only showed 12% in my 'system usage' window with a 128 buffer size. Clearly cpu is not the culrpit here but figured I'd at least mention it so people get an overall picture as to what I'm dealing with here.

I've always recorded the midi in reason, quantized that performance & then recorded into ProTools onto audio tracks via rewire. This was never an issue with Reason 6.5 & ProTools 8. I was even doing this back in the day when I was using ProTools 6 & Reason 2.5.

I have Reason on an instrument track in Protools. I am able to play instruments in Reason via rewire in ProTools. But I am saying is that ProTools 11 & Reason 6.5 don't sync up. I should be able to record midi in Reason and have it play back the way I performed it in protools via rewire.
Because this wasn't working I simply tried to record the audio from Reason into ProTools via rewire, but like I mentioned in my previous description of the problem I get all these strange latency issues.

[musicman691]

Originally Posted by digorysmallz

Thanks for the response. In regards to UAD plugins comment, there should be no latency issues because I am running off the dsp of my TB Apollo 16 (quad) & TB Satellite quad. They do not take up any cpu power on my computer which is why I bought them Both devices are thunderbolt running into my new Macbook Pro (maxed out). I am however running some aax plugins but only showed 12% in my 'system usage' window with a 128 buffer size. Clearly cpu is not the culrpit here but figured I'd at least mention it so people get an overall picture as to what I'm dealing with here.

I've always recorded the midi in reason, quantized that performance & then recorded into ProTools onto audio tracks via rewire. This was never an issue with Reason 6.5 & ProTools 8. I was even doing this back in the day when I was using ProTools 6 & Reason 2.5.

I have Reason on an instrument track in Protools. I am able to play instruments in Reason via rewire in ProTools. But I am saying is that ProTools 11 & Reason 6.5 don't sync up. I should be able to record midi in Reason and have it play back the way I performed it in protools via rewire.
Because this wasn't working I simply tried to record the audio from Reason into ProTools via rewire, but like I mentioned in my previous description of the problem I get all these strange latency issues.

You are mistaken in your statements about the UAD hardware and not causing latency. Their plugins are well known to cause huge latency/delay compensation issues. This happens even though they don't use computer cpu power. It's been mentioned here before.

You mention you're running some aax plugins but don't say what those are. Could you tell us what those are?

You really should record your MIDI in PT instead of Reason even though it worked for you before. Things have changed in PT since your success with PT8 and one has to get used to that and try something different. This may well be the root of your issues and would at least be worth your while to try recording the MIDI in PT and send that over to Reason via Rewire. Of course your issue might also be a combo of an old version of Reason and not using something more up to date like R7 or R8.

[digorysmallz]

Originally Posted by musicman691

You are mistaken in your statements about the UAD hardware and not causing latency. Their plugins are well known to cause huge latency/delay compensation issues. This happens even though they don't use computer cpu power. It's been mentioned here before.

You mention you're running some aax plugins but don't say what those are. Could you tell us what those are?

You really should record your MIDI in PT instead of Reason even though it worked for you before. Things have changed in PT since your success with PT8 and one has to get used to that and try something different. This may well be the root of your issues and would at least be worth your while to try recording the MIDI in PT and send that over to Reason via Rewire. Of course your issue might also be a combo of an old version of Reason and not using something more up to date like R7 or R8.

Well if this were a uad issue then hopefully someone knows something more than I do. Thunderbolt is pretty darn fast so shouldn't be any issues & I have what equates to an 'Octo' of dsp which is more than anyone needs lol.

In regards to aax plugins I am using standard waves & soundtoys plugs and not a lot of them... my system usage meters are at 12% so obviously its not a cpu issue.

Interesting idea about sending protools midi to reason via rewire however that still doesn't solve the issue that Reason midi doesn't even line up with my protools session. They aren't in sync. I would upgrade to 7 or 8 but before I do that I would prefer to try & trouble shoot this issue rather than throw money at it. Reason 6.5 supports 64 bit architecture so there should be no problems.
Thanks for the feedback though & hopefully this is just a silly thing I'm missing on my part!

[musicman691]

Originally Posted by digorysmallz

Well if this were a uad issue then hopefully someone knows something more than I do. Thunderbolt is pretty darn fast so shouldn't be any issues & I have what equates to an 'Octo' of dsp which is more than anyone needs lol.

In regards to aax plugins I am using standard waves & soundtoys plugs and not a lot of them... my system usage meters are at 12% so obviously its not a cpu issue.

Interesting idea about sending protools midi to reason via rewire however that still doesn't solve the issue that Reason midi doesn't even line up with my protools session. They aren't in sync. I would upgrade to 7 or 8 but before I do that I would prefer to try & trouble shoot this issue rather than throw money at it. Reason 6.5 supports 64 bit architecture so there should be no problems.
Thanks for the feedback though & hopefully this is just a silly thing I'm missing on my part!

As regards the UAD it's not a matter of the connection protocol speed. It's the dsp processing of the plugins that causes the latency/delay compensation issues.

Sending PT MIDI to Reason via Rewire would take Reason MIDI out of the loop. Try it and see if that works - it won't cost you anything.

[digorysmallz]

Originally Posted by musicman691

As regards the UAD it's not a matter of the connection protocol speed. It's the dsp processing of the plugins that causes the latency/delay compensation issues.

Sending PT MIDI to Reason via Rewire would take Reason MIDI out of the loop. Try it and see if that works - it won't cost you anything.

This doesn't really help in regards to how I've been using Rewire for the last 8 years. No disrespect at all but for sake of this thread I'm very curious to hear some other thoughts/opinion on the matter. There's gotta be some other folks using the Apollo line with ProTools 11 & Reason rewire in their sessions.

cheers

[musicman691]

Originally Posted by digorysmallz

This doesn't really help in regards to how I've been using Rewire for the last 8 years. No disrespect at all but for sake of this thread I'm very curious to hear some other thoughts/opinion on the matter. There's gotta be some other folks using the Apollo line with ProTools 11 & Reason rewire in their sessions.

cheers

I keep asking the question/making the suggestion and you keep ignoring it and that is: will you at least try sending the MIDI from PT via normal Rewire procedure instead of recording the MIDI in Reason? I know it's contrary to what you've been doing for so long but that just may be the issue in the case and using PT11. There's not many people that do things your way or they'd have answered by now. At least give the normal way a try - it can't hurt.

Just because something worked before doesn't mean it will keep working, especially when something in the chain changes like a new PT version.

[digorysmallz]

I managed to fix it with the upgrade to ProTools 12. Works perfectly now.

[PabloB]

I'm having a very similar issue and have had this problem for a couple years. I'm using older versions than you, PT9 and Reason 6. But very similar problems.

What I'm seeing is that as long as my HW Buffer setting is 256 or higher, they link up perfectly and stay linked. But as soon as I lower the setting below 256, they're unlinked. The Reason timeline scrolls much slower.

I agree that for the most part you can use Midi from PT to Reason, but I don't think that's going to work very well using step sequencers and possibly more.

This is definitely a problem that should have been fixed without having to throw money at it, I agree. I've taken screen shot videos where at 256 they linked perfect and at 128 they were way off, and sent them to Reason support. They said they couldn't duplicate the problem.

I really wish I knew how to fix this problem and have it work correctly instead of having to use a work around. Yes, you can send PT midi to Reason, but you shouldn't have to, and I didn't have to ever with older PT and Reason versions.

Paul