MIDI problem - can anyone replicate?

[Marsdy]

Originally Posted by midnightrambler

It’s placing the MIDI early on the timeline. I’ll repeat, EARLY. Nothing to do with playability, which is fine, it’s to do with *where* the MIDI is placed on the timeline after recording. Why is it placed early? Does this not bother anyone else? Is there some weird quirk with my system, and my system alone, that means I can play the VI fine, with no playing latency at high buffer settings, but the MIDI is early?

I can’t verify your findings because I can’t get into my studio at the moment but...

I don’t understand why changing the buffer should effect your results although something is clearly amiss. Pro Tools is supposed to have a dual buffer. One very high one for playback which PT determines in the backgroundm, and the buffer you can adjust which determines the play through/record buffer. That’s why when you record enable a VI the CPU usage goes up.

[midnightrambler]

Originally Posted by Marsdy

I can’t verify your findings because I can’t get into my studio at the moment but...

I don’t understand why changing the buffer should effect your results although something is clearly amiss. Pro Tools is supposed to have a dual buffer. One very high one for playback which PT determines in the backgroundm, and the buffer you can adjust which determines the play through/record buffer. That’s why when you record enable a VI the CPU usage goes up.

Thanks for this - I sort of had a vague memory of remembering this being implemented but I have to admit my memory is a bit sketchy.

[lesbrunn]

Originally Posted by midnightrambler

I'm on 2020.3, 10.14.6, HD Native.

Can anyone see if they can reproduce this on their system please? I'm currently in conversation with AVID Tech support who are being very evasive about whether they can reproduce this problem on their side. Their current suggestion is to "delete Pro Tools prefs"

http://duc.avid.com/showpost.php?p=2562069&postcount=16

PT has been like this for as far back as I can remember. Lower buffer settings give you lower latency. 32-256 is OK for recording 1024 will definitely be 'unplayable' because you hear the sound later than you should. It doesn't always work perfectly, but Preferences>MIDI>Global MIDI Playback Offset allows you to compensate with a -value. 512 would be offset with -512 etc.
In my experience, certain VI's exhibit this issue more than others. If it's too bad you can compensate more from Event>MIDI Track Offsets on a per track basis.

[falcowe]

Originally Posted by midnightrambler

I'm on 2020.3, 10.14.6, HD Native.

Can anyone see if they can reproduce this on their system please? I'm currently in conversation with AVID Tech support who are being very evasive about whether they can reproduce this problem on their side. Their current suggestion is to "delete Pro Tools prefs"

http://duc.avid.com/showpost.php?p=2562069&postcount=16

Hey I gave your test a shot on my system. I have a radically different setup so I don't know how much good this is but I am not having the issue you showed in your video. My midi is lining up after recording. Obviously playing with 1024 buffer there was latency. But playback was fine. I'm running HD software with an RME UFX+. Now since I don't own battery I couldn't exactly replicate the test so I used the Mini Grand Air inst. This makes me think that maybe there is latency being added by kontakt? Have you tried different VI manufacturers? Especially Avid's own stuff to see if you are getting the same problem across multiple types of VIs? Just a thought.

[midnightrambler]

Originally Posted by falcowe

Hey I gave your test a shot on my system. I have a radically different setup so I don't know how much good this is but I am not having the issue you showed in your video. My midi is lining up after recording. Obviously playing with 1024 buffer there was latency. But playback was fine. I'm running HD software with an RME UFX+. Now since I don't own battery I couldn't exactly replicate the test so I used the Mini Grand Air inst. This makes me think that maybe there is latency being added by kontakt? Have you tried different VI manufacturers? Especially Avid's own stuff to see if you are getting the same problem across multiple types of VIs? Just a thought.

Thanks for this. I've tried the same test on my laptop / Focsurite setup and I get the same results as yours, i.e. rubbish playability on record, but plays back as played in. So might be something to do with the HD Native configuration that allows "latency-free" recording but inaccurate playback.

[midi sordino]

Originally Posted by midnightrambler

So after a week of to'ing and fro'ing the "support" department have now decided this is a feature, not a bug.

"On a recording side, obviously, if you set your buffer size to 1024 you will experience a delay. The higher the amount of buffer size the higher chance of getting a delay during recording. You can just adjust your buffer size to a much higher amount if you are now on mastering the mix."

No explanation as to why there's a delay, whether it happens on all systems or if it's just mine (hint: it almost certainly won't be), why they can't just build in some sort of correction so that MIDI can be played in on ANY buffer size. It's taken a week for them to admit that it just doesn't work as it should, after asking me to waste time doing things like changing the USB cable, deleting prefs, trying a different VI, etc etc.

I'm so angry.

Buffer of 1024 is really for mixing down with a lot of plugins. It's not the right buffer setting in any DAW for inputting midi notes, not just Pro Tools. Best to write at 64 if possible or 128 or 256 if your system is struggling.

[midnightrambler]

Originally Posted by midi sordino

Buffer of 1024 is really for mixing down with a lot of plugins. It's not the right buffer setting in any DAW for inputting midi notes, not just Pro Tools. Best to write at 64 if possible or 128 or 256 if your system is struggling.

They should just disable the facility at higher buffers then, instead of pretending it's of any use. It's unusable.

[Richard Culver]

From my experience the buffer setting is a trade-off. I think it depends on a lot of factors not the least of which is hardware. Which is going to be different from system to system. So I think that the reason the settings are there is because in some instances you might get away with a higher buffer setting.


The trade off is basically higher buffer settings mean you get uninterrupted recording and playback. So think about all of the factors that will affect this.


Your sound hardware.
The sample rate
Your drive speed
And in the case of VST it is of course reading sounds through all of the above. The sounds have a sample rate, (and size) they are played from your disk through your sound system and you get the result back through your phones or speakers.


So you increase your buffer size to make sure this playback is smooth. And how high you can set it will depend on your system.


Then the trade off is the higher the buffer setting the more delay you are going to get. You can test this on an audio track. Try monitoring your recording while the track is in record mode and test various buffer settings. You can hear a delay as you get to higher levels.


What does a buffer do? It stores the data in memory so that there is no interruption of sound. You don't hear the skips and so on that are really happening as your system chokes because the data is stored first and then sent to your years smoothly.


So the larger the storage bin - if you will - the longer it is going to take to store and retrieve that bucket of data.


Hope this helps.

[midnightrambler]

Update : just had email from Avid that this is a “legit issue” and they’re working on a fix. To all the unbelievers I say : you’re forgiven.

[XJENSEN]

Finally!