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  #1  
Old 11-27-2017, 12:15 AM
jeroengeerinck jeroengeerinck is offline
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Default 192 I/O + HD omni - latency offset

Hello,

I'm combining an HD omni with a 192 I/O on my protools 9HD system with HDaccel cards.
(will upgrade to HDX/12HD in summer next year I guess when I have a break point so I can take some time to set it up).

Now for some time I have discovered that when using the omni inputs together with the I/O, that there is an ugly time offset between the 2 interfaces.

for example at 48Khz with 2 identical mics perfectly aligned I get 50samples of latency (1ms)
on 96 Khz I changes a bit 54 samples.
This was measured by selecting waveforms peak to peak zoomed in heavily.


I also think that at times I measured it to be more but as I'm testing now I can not reproduce other offsets then this. So on different buffer sizes it is also unchanged.


Because I mainly use the i/O for my external preamps I only have this problem when using the omni preamps. but I'd want to use the omni as well for another 8 channel preamp and in that case I would really like to find a solution for this problem.


Biggest question for me. Can this be a normal result of having an older I/O working together with the omni and would the latency be due to slower converters?
Or is there a possibility to calibrate this that I don't know of?
or is my I/O just broken.




big thanks for any ideas.
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  #2  
Old 11-27-2017, 09:13 AM
Samanthas Dream Samanthas Dream is offline
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Default Re: 192 I/O + HD omni - latency offset

I have an Omni and a 192 I/O and I do not have this issue.
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  #3  
Old 11-27-2017, 09:48 AM
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albee1952 albee1952 is offline
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Default Re: 192 I/O + HD omni - latency offset

Its quite common for there to be slight timing differences between different brands of converters(I found similar when combining the 003 with a lightpipe preamp). The only time that tiny offset is really going to matter is if you are running the same signal thru both converters I work with a pair of HD IO boxes and a 192 here and have yet to hear anything(certainly the HD IO would be the same as the OMNI). I measured 8 samples of offset between the HD IO and the 192 here.(snare mic thru 2 preamps, 1 thru 192 and other thru HD IO). The preamps are different brands but all analog so I don't know if there is any difference in either preamp's throughput
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Old 11-27-2017, 11:15 AM
jeroengeerinck jeroengeerinck is offline
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Default Re: 192 I/O + HD omni - latency offset

Hi, nice to hear that.
How are they hooked up to your cards?

Is it also an older accel system?
do you use the expansion ports.

I have both interfaces linked to an accel card each.
Wondering if combining them with digilink, and linking this to my accel cord card would make a difference...


Well I suppose 4 samples won't make as big off a problem, but 50 samples is an issue if you're combining more then one mic for the same source. with capsules aligned you still get phase issues....
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Old 11-27-2017, 11:47 AM
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albee1952 albee1952 is offline
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Default Re: 192 I/O + HD omni - latency offset

Knowing its happening allows you to compensate or alter your work flow to sidestep. IIRC(as I can't get behind my rack), I have the 2 HD IO boxes daisy-chained from 1 port of the card, and the 192 is a homerun with the Digilink>MiniDigilink adapter. The 192 has an extra output card so I use it for 8 hardware inserts and 8 analog inputs from a Midas XL-48 for my drum "shell" channels(overheads, hat and ride go thru an ISA-428>analog to an HD IO)
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Old 11-27-2017, 12:11 PM
jeroengeerinck jeroengeerinck is offline
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Default Re: 192 I/O + HD omni - latency offset

thanks.

I will probably test using the 192 I/O straight to the core card, running the omni daisy-chained on the 192.
That's the only other config that I can do with the digilink cables that I have.

But can't do that before next week since I currently have a couple of days of a break in a recording session that needs to be finished so I don't want to go messing with my cards during this session.

Anyway I know I can also just nudge all recordings from one interface to match the other, or put a simple plugih on those tracks adjusting for the correct amount of samples, but honestly it's a pain having to do such manual compensations.
Since I guess it's not really how it should behave, I'm hoping to find a "simple" solution.
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Old 11-27-2017, 12:42 PM
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albee1952 albee1952 is offline
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Default Re: 192 I/O + HD omni - latency offset

One "simple" solution would be to sell the OMNI and buy another 192 plus a monitor controller(a used 192 and Presonus central Station would cost less than what you can sell the OMNI for).
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Old 11-27-2017, 12:50 PM
jeroengeerinck jeroengeerinck is offline
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Default Re: 192 I/O + HD omni - latency offset

Well I have a D-command and an Xmon. (got this after the omni).
so the monitoring part of the omni is quite obsolete.
And as I'm looking to put in other preamps soon, the build-in preamps won't be used any more either.

So this might actually be a really good idea.

Only then I might better go for an avid HD I/O rather then the old 192, and then the question remains if this will be resolved.
Don't know if I have to consider the idea that 192 I/O won't be compatible with pro tools anymore in the (near) future?
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Old 12-06-2017, 01:17 AM
jeroengeerinck jeroengeerinck is offline
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Default Re: 192 I/O + HD omni - latency offset

So thanks for thinking along.
I have found a solution. (? the solution)

Protools HD has this option that says 'compensate for input delays after record pass'.
It is located on the 'input' tab off the I/O window.
This nicely aligns sounds from both interfaces and solves the problem.
Well it makes it possible to the interfaces together, but the issue off course remains that whilst sound checking it'd still be hard to sort out phase problems, by hearing since the alignment can only happen after the record pass, which is off course logic.

Guess I'll need an avid I/O with the same architecture inside as the omni, then this small shift won't happen I presume.
But first I need to get my hands on an HDX + a new PT12HD license.
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Old 02-15-2018, 05:45 PM
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Default Re: 192 I/O + HD omni - latency offset

Quote:
Originally Posted by jeroengeerinck View Post
So thanks for thinking along.
I have found a solution. (? the solution)

Protools HD has this option that says 'compensate for input delays after record pass'.
It is located on the 'input' tab off the I/O window.
This nicely aligns sounds from both interfaces and solves the problem.
Well it makes it possible to the interfaces together, but the issue off course remains that whilst sound checking it'd still be hard to sort out phase problems, by hearing since the alignment can only happen after the record pass, which is off course logic.

Guess I'll need an avid I/O with the same architecture inside as the omni, then this small shift won't happen I presume.
But first I need to get my hands on an HDX + a new PT12HD license.
does it actually allow per input offset? Cause my planned HDX seems like it will be a mix of 4 different converter types hence latency.
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