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  #1  
Old 03-07-2001, 07:13 AM
Haddock Haddock is offline
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Default Anyone using Sibelius or Finale and PT 5.1?

I'm looking to use some notation software with Protools 5.1. Is anyone out there using either Sibelius or Finale on a single computer with Protools 5.1? Any comments? Also, if there is some notation software out there that works better with Protools, I would be very interested. Thanks!
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  #2  
Old 03-07-2001, 08:25 AM
dcornutt dcornutt is offline
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Default Re: Anyone using Sibelius or Finale and PT 5.1?

Yes,
The way to use your notation package w/ PTle is to go back and forth by exporting and importing MIDI 1 files. Coming from the notation package side to PTle..Just select..import midi file. When you open it in PTle..it will make a seperate track for each stave. It will also bring in your tempo maps..ie..ritards, etc. After you import the midi file, select "conductor" track for tempo. (thats the conductor icon on your transport controls window).

This has worked really well for me..as the tempo tools in PTle..are very, very primitive.

The last thing to do is to assign your instrument/sounds to each track..and any clean up..adjustment for performance.

Going the other way..just export a standard midi file from PTle..and open it in either Sibileus or Finale. Both should give you options on import..such as..each instrument in its on stave..etc.

There is clean up on both ends..but..overall it works quite well.

There is no direct import either way..from PTle to any notation package other than using midi files. But, like I said..this works pretty well..and..it will work in ANY notation package.

Lastly, Finale is of course the industry standard. Its got LOTs of menus..etc..and can be quite difficult to learn. (better now than it used to be). Sibileus is in the same category as Finale..in the features/power range..but..is much easier and more straight forward to use. Its very intuitive.

There are demos of both. i suggest you try them..to see which suits your fancy.

But, as far as PTle goes..they both work thru midi import/export equally well.

Hope that helps

dcornutt
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  #3  
Old 03-07-2001, 02:51 PM
dcornutt dcornutt is offline
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Default Re: Anyone using Sibelius or Finale and PT 5.1?

Yes, I use a range of apps. Just depends on what Im doing.

That said..most notation apps have OMS support and some midi tools.

They will playback your compositions. They even are highly configurable..you can assign certain midi events to music notation markings..such as decresendo..etc.

In this regard..you can compose in notation..and it will playback using OMS instruments..etc. You can assign patches/sounds to different instruments..change patches..etc.

But, youll still want to use a seperate sequencer/audio DAW for processing.

PTle's 5.1 midi tools are very basic but functional. The only pain is the windows are on the small side for midi editing..and..its missing a few tools that it should have.

But overall..it works just fine.

PTle 5.1 audio portion however is quite good.

After you get done composing in a notation app...export it as a midi file..import into PTle..tweak until it sounds right. Then..record your midi tracks to audio tracks.

At this point..you are now in PTle's world.

edit, mix add plugins..effects..etc..master out. From here you can save your file as mp3, realaudio, aiff, SDII, Wav..etc.

Its good to have both. If you can only afford one..and your used to writing music using notation..then..either Sibelius or Finale will do fine..as far as hearing back your arrangements. They might even surprise you at the midi functionality they contain. But they do not compare to stand alone sequencers..nor do they have any audio capabilities.

Don't forget..that PTle comes with "hardware" either an 001 or a AMIII card.

What you need to look for when you shop for a notation package is to make sure that it has the features your looking for. For instance...guitar tabs. Etc..

While most of the high end programs have some ability in all these areas..some are more suited to certain tasks than others..ie..they make it easier.

I suggest you download the demos..and play with them. See which feels best..which has the tools most suited for your needs. Finale and Sibelius are probably the top of the range. The are other lower cost programs..that don't have as many tools..but..may have the particular ones your looking for.

Good luck.

[This message has been edited by dcornutt (edited March 07, 2001).]
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  #4  
Old 03-07-2001, 04:49 PM
Haddock Haddock is offline
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Default Re: Anyone using Sibelius or Finale and PT 5.1?

Thanks again for your response. From what you're saying it sounds like the MIDI features/sequencer in ProTools 5.1 (I don't know if the regular version of 5.1 offers more than the LE version in the MIDI department) is enough to do what I want with Sibelius or Finale. Woould you agree with that assessment? I'm just wondering whether I need to get a more sophisticated sequencing program or not. I'd like to think that PT 5.1 can handle it. Thanks!

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  #5  
Old 03-07-2001, 07:39 PM
dcornutt dcornutt is offline
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Default Re: Anyone using Sibelius or Finale and PT 5.1?

Geez,
Thats a tough question to answer without a lot more info.

Let me see if I can just throw out some basic info and see if it helps.

First, a notation app like Finale or Sibelius is a good addition to ANY sequencer you choose...as they both have noation abilites far and above any notation in a sequencer.
Also, they aren't exactly easy to learn.

Second..midi tools in PTle..and PT TDM are exactly the same. Its the audio, hardware and other features that are different..and the price

Third..Ptle midi has less features than any other midi seq out there. That said..what they put in Pt for midi are the "nuts and bolts" tools that you use most of the time.
This makes it really easy to learn and use and sufficient for most tasks.

It really depends on your experience.
If your new to all this..then PTle is a great place to start. It has great manuals..its very straightforward, easy to learn and it sounds great.

If you have some experience..then..youve got some more options to choose from.

Logic is probably the most powerful sequencer there is. ITs also hard to learn. The knife cuts both ways. With all the options..comes lots of menus..tools..etc.

But..then..when you want to tweak..having all those menus, windows..etc..can be a good thing.

You can always add a more powerful sequencer later. Logic is compatible with the 001.
For that matter..you can use Logic the same way you would a notation package...ie..sequence and notate in Logic..and just export the midi files..and import them into PTle..for final adjustments..and recording to audio.

In this regard..I recommend Logic Gold..which is much cheaper than the Plat version..and has the same midi/notation..just not as much audio tools. It also doens't have the hardware dongle copy protection.

If you don't need the notation power of Finale or Sibelius..but want more sequencing tools than PTle..then..Logic is the way to go. It's notation is best amoung the sequencers. It doesn't have the tools that Finale has..etc..but..if you don't need all that..then..logic iwth your PTle..is a way to get everything you want...PTle audio, Logic sequencing..and notation.

Thats a lot of stuff to setup and learn though.

Unless your an advanced midi tweak head..I think youll find the midi in Ptle "adequate" for waht you want to do. Youll find Finale etc..hard to learn. Youll find Logic very hard to learn (just don't look at the "environment window")

Like I said..you can always start out with PTle/001..and a good notation package..then add a more powerful midi sequencer later.

Heck..Vision (from opcode) is only 49 bucks!
Vision is still a killer midi sequencer..works with OMS. Becuase of the midi file transfer I mentioned before..it really doesn't matter what sequencer you use.

You could use anything..export your midi as standard midi file..import it into PTle..and re-assign your midi patches..and your good to go. Even though..Vision is basically.."dead" (opcode was bought out by Gibson..and has just died on the vine)..its very easy to learn..midi only sequencer..straight forward and powerful.

The advantage of the whole Logic/PTle thing is..you "can" share your hardware 001 between them. Which means..you can also..do audio in either one. Logic..gives you more tracks of audio..and VST compatiblity.

Anyway..I hope all this helps. Like I said..without knowing you..what your experience is..or what you want to do exactly..its hard to offer you a definative answer to your question.
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  #6  
Old 03-08-2001, 12:17 AM
Haddock Haddock is offline
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Default Re: Anyone using Sibelius or Finale and PT 5.1?

Thanks! Would you say that you use Sibelius or Finale as a sequencer? I'm thinking that I could almost use one of these programs as a quasi-sequencer (not sure if either of those programs allow for intense editing of midi data?). How are Protools 5.1's MIDI features?

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  #7  
Old 03-08-2001, 09:04 AM
Conscious Structure Conscious Structure is offline
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Default Re: Anyone using Sibelius or Finale and PT 5.1?

I have been using Finale for many years. I got it to write orchestrations, but I use the midi functions quite often. It's very useful.

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  #8  
Old 03-10-2001, 04:18 PM
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Default Re: Anyone using Sibelius or Finale and PT 5.1?

As someone that worked at Opcode for years, I should point out that for $49 Vision gives you audio, midi, and notation. Whether or not it will work on a newer system I can't say. It didn't play nice when I tried to install it on my G3 laptop with OS 9.1. I do still use Overture for notation quite a bit, sold by Opcode to Cakewalk a while back, and it runs fine on the laptop.

Finale is definitely more intuitive than it used to be. I hadn't upgraded since Finale 97 until recently, but the latest version of Finale 2001 is much easier to figure out, even for a midiot like me. I'll use it most often just for printing a standard midi file created in another program, because it makes great looking charts.
And it imports Encore notation files, which a few horn players I work with still send me. Encore is another program that seems kind of stuck in time, as far as I know. I think someone else is distributing it now, but I don't know if it's been updated in a while.

sorry, got of on a ramble about the old days...


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  #9  
Old 03-10-2001, 08:31 PM
dcornutt dcornutt is offline
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Default Re: Anyone using Sibelius or Finale and PT 5.1?

Hi Bruce,
yes, i mentioned Visions's 49 dollar download in my 2nd post here. I used Studio Vision for years. Loved it...but..notation wasn't one of its strong points.
BTW..The "vision" download..is just he midi seqencer/notation. "Studio Vision" is the audio/midi/notation sequencer..and it costs more. Audio in Studio Vision never got sorted out. Although the sequencing was quite intuitive.

Its STILL a great sequencer though.
Even after all this time.

Doesn't matter if it works with PT. fire it up seperately..do your sequence..export as standard midi file..and import into PTle...after you shut Vision down.

I STILL miss a lot of features that were in STudio Vision today...like..dragging a track on top of another track to merge them.

Get yourself over to the midi lab asap...and start explaining it to them!

dcornutt

[This message has been edited by dcornutt (edited March 10, 2001).]
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