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  #1  
Old 03-11-2009, 01:22 PM
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solidwalnut solidwalnut is offline
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Default To avoid latency in monitoring in record...

I'm in the hunt for a mic pre. And also to eliminate the latency in record mode by monitoring the signal prior. I really don't need more than three, but am happy with one channel using an external pre. I have an Avalon 737 that I'd like to start using again.

Here's the main thing I want to do: Have the one mic line to the Avalon and then line out to line in on the 003. Then I want to be able to monitor that signal. Since there's only one line out on the Avalon, I can mult that out to my headphone amp, correcto? See any problem with creating an xlr or trs Y cable for this purpose?

The analog outs of the 003 will have the latency, true?

For the other two mic inputs, I can just use the 003 pres for now.

As long as I can monitor the Avalon output, I'm good for now. I can live with the other lines having latency in record. Eventually I'll take my set-up to the level of a rack of pre's --> toslink --> dac--> 003. But for now, anyone see any problem with what I want to do? Thanks.
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  #2  
Old 03-11-2009, 01:43 PM
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Default Re: To avoid latency in monitoring in record...

While this all works, it leaves you out of luck on one very important aspect of recording; punch-ins. If your computer is powerful enough to run at a 64 buffer, the resulting latency (monitoring thru protools) should be so low that you don't notice it. You also have the option of Low Latency monitoring. Direct monitoring will not allow for auditioning existing audio before a punch-in recording and is also(my opinion only) more trouble than solution. I record singers at the 64 buffer all the time and have never had a single complaint or comment about latency in the headphones. Food for thought.
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  #3  
Old 03-11-2009, 02:04 PM
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Default Re: To avoid latency in monitoring in record...

Thanks albee. Well, I have some major latency (I'll bet it's 250 ms) going on so I'll need to figure this out (all three mics going directly into the 003). Unfortunately, I'm not going to have the chance to check my settings (probably) until tomorrow night. But from what you're saying, I shouldn't have to go through all of this Y cable stuff, so that's encouraging.

So I've checked and adjusted the H/W buffer sizes to no avail, so something else is going on.

Oh, also I forgot to elaborate. You mentioned not being able to monitor for punch-ins. The set-up would be the mult'd out of the Avalon mixed at the headphone amp with program from the 003 so that shouldn't be an issue.

Any other thoughts or things to look for would sure be great, thanks.
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  #4  
Old 03-11-2009, 03:13 PM
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Default Re: To avoid latency in monitoring in record...

The other part of this is that I wanted to ask if any of you know of any product that has mic pres/adc and has a mic or line level input that bypasses the pre. Thanks.
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Old 03-11-2009, 03:33 PM
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Default Re: To avoid latency in monitoring in record...

Quote:
Originally Posted by solidwalnut View Post
Thanks albee. Well, I have some major latency (I'll bet it's 250 ms) going on so I'll need to figure this out (all three mics going directly into the 003). Unfortunately, I'm not going to have the chance to check my settings (probably) until tomorrow night. But from what you're saying, I shouldn't have to go through all of this Y cable stuff, so that's encouraging.

So I've checked and adjusted the H/W buffer sizes to no avail, so something else is going on.

Oh, also I forgot to elaborate. You mentioned not being able to monitor for punch-ins. The set-up would be the mult'd out of the Avalon mixed at the headphone amp with program from the 003 so that shouldn't be an issue.

Any other thoughts or things to look for would sure be great, thanks.
you post a core 2 quad on your specs. you should have no problems changing your hardware buffer to 64 samples. this would solve your problem. down from there, is the low latency option this will also take care of your problem. my question is do you have plugins running on your master fader or tracks you are recording to??? if so that could be your problem. your idea your going for will be a over dub nightmare. tracking to audio playback that has latency is not a good idea. been there done that!! (even worse, not on purpose) would be best to get your system working properly and keep things as problem free as possible
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  #6  
Old 03-11-2009, 03:40 PM
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Default Re: To avoid latency in monitoring in record...

I'm with guitardom on this one. What plugins are you running? Any on the master fader should be bypassed until recording is finished. If a buffer setting of 64 with no serious latency-inducing plugins points to a problem somewhere. For sure, 250ms would drive anyone crazy but as I said earlier, I record at 64 all the time and hear zilch for latency so it can't be more than 3ms.
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Old 03-11-2009, 03:44 PM
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Default Re: To avoid latency in monitoring in record...

Quote:
Originally Posted by albee1952 View Post
I'm with guitardom on this one. What plugins are you running? Any on the master fader should be bypassed until recording is finished. If a buffer setting of 64 with no serious latency-inducing plugins points to a problem somewhere. For sure, 250ms would drive anyone crazy but as I said earlier, I record at 64 all the time and hear zilch for latency so it can't be more than 3ms.
and to add to this and not correcting you albee, just specifying so no misunderstandings, make the plug inactive or get rid of it. just bypassing will leave the latency present.
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  #8  
Old 03-11-2009, 04:49 PM
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Default Re: To avoid latency in monitoring in record...

Yep. I'll bet the both of you are right. I realize now that I AM using plugs on the channels to be recorded (not running them on any master channels). These are the culprits, I'm sure.

So let me run this by you to make sure I'm hearing you guys correctly: I need to eliminate or make the plugs inactive on the channels (set the buffer to 64, set to low-latency monitoring if needed...yes.).

Okay, I need to think out loud for a sec. I want to be able to use compression on record (first scenario is 'in the box' compression; using plugs). I know I can do this by routing the input to an aux ch, effect the aux channel and then bussing the aux channel to another for recording. If I then buss the monitor signal from the original aux, is that pre or post fx, hence is that pre or post latency? Does this mean that any output selection from the aux ch, whether bussed or the output would have the latency?

Scenario two: Use the Avalon in-line. If I do, sending the line level to an ana input (5-8), and I use the standard 1-2 out for monitoring both input and playback, you think there should be no problem, no latency?

I'm taking it that I just learned a lesson about plugs and latency

Thanks guys.
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  #9  
Old 03-11-2009, 05:34 PM
guitardom guitardom is offline
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Default Re: To avoid latency in monitoring in record...

Quote:
Originally Posted by solidwalnut View Post
Yep. I'll bet the both of you are right. I realize now that I AM using plugs on the channels to be recorded (not running them on any master channels). These are the culprits, I'm sure.

So let me run this by you to make sure I'm hearing you guys correctly: I need to eliminate or make the plugs inactive on the channels (set the buffer to 64, set to low-latency monitoring if needed...yes.).

Okay, I need to think out loud for a sec. I want to be able to use compression on record (first scenario is 'in the box' compression; using plugs). I know I can do this by routing the input to an aux ch, effect the aux channel and then bussing the aux channel to another for recording. If I then buss the monitor signal from the original aux, is that pre or post fx, hence is that pre or post latency? Does this mean that any output selection from the aux ch, whether bussed or the output would have the latency?

Scenario two: Use the Avalon in-line. If I do, sending the line level to an ana input (5-8), and I use the standard 1-2 out for monitoring both input and playback, you think there should be no problem, no latency?

I'm taking it that I just learned a lesson about plugs and latency

Thanks guys.
your getting there!!

actually since you know that now, what plugs exactly do you have on the inserts of the tracks???

yes eliminate the plugs or make them inactive. EITHER set your hw buffer to 64, even 128 is usable, or set it to low latency monitoring. typically low latency monitoring will deactivate the plugs on the i/o.

put no plugs on the master fader either, this is the most common mistake. some plugs have no latency but i still dont trust it myself.

your first scenerio is not being rude but about useless. the compresion is after the d/a converter which is the most important. i would just insert the plug after recording. you have plenty of cpu power. but yes you could route to an aux then to a track. but yes any thing bussed or outputed on the aux w compressor will have the latency.

if you mean by inline, running your mic to the avalon > line out of avalon > input 5-8 on digi > then monitor out of ana out 1-2 along with your music bed, yes you are fine. keep in mind same rule of applying plugs to your music bed can cause probs as well.

there are no latency plugs out there. most from digi are as well. at the bottom of your i/o where the readout typically says vol.......in green, hold cntrl and click it. will go through a couple parameters, one being delay. the readout is in samples. it is not known for being 100% correct, but usually pretty close.
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  #10  
Old 03-11-2009, 05:49 PM
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Default Re: To avoid latency in monitoring in record...

Quote:
Originally Posted by guitardom View Post
your getting there!!
Who said an old dog can't learn new tricks?? Hey, I want to hit a couple of your other points but I have to go for now. I'll catch up with you later.

Steve
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