A Few Questions About HD|Native

[jaminjamesp]

I recently updated to PT11, which has been great, for the most part. I'm using it with an Mbox 3 Pro. I'm still fighting some latency issues, and am looking around at some options. Is anyone using any of the HD|Native products? I've seen some good latency numbers from the Avid website , 1.7 milliseconds seems impressive. It lists "Top Performing Firewire Interfaces" at 5.3 milliseconds... I'm guessing that would be my Mbox 3 Pro and the like? Are "real life" users having any latency issues with HD|Native? How are the pres in the Omni? Are they a step up from my Mbox 3 Pro? I mainly use my X73i when tracking vocals and instruments, but it would be nice to have another good pre amp option.

I'm not familiar with HD systems and the PCIe cards. Is that a card that I need to physically install into my iMac? Or does it connect via thunderbolt?

Also, and this is a big part of my decision, I just spent about $3K updating plugins to AAX 64. Will my native plugins work with HD|Native, or will I need to go TDM?

Thanks a bunch!!

[Drew Mazurek]

Originally Posted by jaminjamesp

I recently updated to PT11, which has been great, for the most part. I'm using it with an Mbox 3 Pro. I'm still fighting some latency issues, and am looking around at some options. Is anyone using any of the HD|Native products? I've seen some good latency numbers from the Avid website , 1.7 milliseconds seems impressive. It lists "Top Performing Firewire Interfaces" at 5.3 milliseconds... I'm guessing that would be my Mbox 3 Pro and the like? Are "real life" users having any latency issues with HD|Native? How are the pres in the Omni? Are they a step up from my Mbox 3 Pro? I mainly use my X73i when tracking vocals and instruments, but it would be nice to have another good pre amp option.

I'm not familiar with HD systems and the PCIe cards. Is that a card that I need to physically install into my iMac? Or does it connect via thunderbolt?

Also, and this is a big part of my decision, I just spent about $3K updating plugins to AAX 64. Will my native plugins work with HD|Native, or will I need to go TDM?

Thanks a bunch!!

1.7ms is for 96k sessions at a buffer setting of 64 or 44.1/48k sessions at a buffer of 32. Your computer may or may not be able to do that. I remember someone posting about having issues possibly related to their chassis, would have to do a search.

I use my Native card set to 64 samples (at 44.1) and track bands all the time without issue. However, as evidenced by a recent thread here, some people don't find this acceptable. Maybe you're one of them? Who knows.

http://duc.avid.com/showthread.php?t=348426

Don't know about the pres in the Omni, but the converters are the same as my HD I/O and they are very good IMO.

You could/should get HD Native Thunderbolt which would connect directly to your iMac.

All your plugs will work just fine on the new setup.

[propower]

HDN latency is only 1.7ms at 96kHz/64buffer
44.1/32 is 3.35ms
44.1/64 is 4.8ms

Yes - the thread above seems like a good read for you...

For further entertainment: A recent poll regarding latency...
http://www.gearslutz.com/board/music...-software.html

[Craig F]

TDM is dead, all Native plugs work on DSP system but HDN is a Native system so your good

For an iMac you would want to get the HDN|Thunderbolt box. no space for a card in an iMac

I have not used the HDN stuff yet so I can not directly comment on latency but most people seem happy with it

[Drew Mazurek]

Originally Posted by propower

44.1/32 is 3.35ms

I'm curious why it wouldn't be the same as 64 @ 96k?

[propower]

Originally Posted by Drew Mazurek

I'm curious why it wouldn't be the same as 64 @ 96k?

The reason for this is that the converters in the AVID I/O's change "mode" between 44.1 and 96kHz - mode being how the conversion is being done - my memory says this was to achieve better sound at 44.1kHz. I need to find the original AVID post! Regardless, I have done repeated measurements and am very sure of this. This also has a dramatic impact on the Low Latency Monitor path (LLM)

0.47ms at 96kHz and
1.9ms at 44.1

[michael c]

So what is the latency at 48k on an Avid HD I/O?

[propower]

I never measured at 48kHz but I "assume" it is slightly less than 44.1 - no mode change...

FWIW here is one of the original AVID posts that clearly supports 96kHz as the only 1.7ms one - I got pretty close to these numbers when i measured...

http://www.gearslutz.com/board/pro-t...hd-native.html

[YYR123]

Originally Posted by propower

. This also has a dramatic impact on the Low Latency Monitor path (LLM)

0.47ms at 96kHz and
1.9ms at 44.1

This is measured without plugs in the chain right ?

[propower]

Originally Posted by YYR123

This is measured without plugs in the chain right ?

That is correct. The LLM path does not allow plugins and is pretty close to just the sum of the A/D and D/A conversion times.